Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations 3

[GerryBertier]

I'm coming up to my 2nd year review at an engineering firm and I'm wondering what my market value and compensation should be at.

After my first year, I received great reviews from the partners and they said I was the future of the company, had a great work ethic and I took on much more responsibility than other engineers with my experience.

Here is more info

- Small Company < 25 employees
- MEPS Consulting Firm
- Located in an expensive area

- I've had 2 summer internships with the company
- Hired full time after graduation
- I've passed my FE in college
- I'm a LEED AP
- My degree is BS Architectural Engineering

- First line of Contact w/ my architects (clients)
- Attend some meetings/site visits alone
- Maintain all of my relationships with my architects without losing work


At my one-year review, I explained my wanting of being compensated in line with the work load and responsibly they have become to expect from me, especially in respect to other engineers of my same experience. They explained the "responsibility" was for my "own good and experience". In response to the "average" salary from ASCE, they responded "what about all of your peers whom don't even have a job in their field".


I know I'm in a great place - I have a job which I love. I'm gaining the experience needed to sit for the SE. But I still feel like I'm being "taken advantage" of.


I need some advice on how to get my mind right - and put these worries behind me.

Thanks in advance. Feel free to ask anymore questions.

 

[HeavyCivil]

I had an experience like jtx - worked for an A/E firm doing mostly WWTP's. Hired for structural work with the closest thing to a mentor the principal CE who couldn't draw an FBD if he tried. Spent 100's of hours self-teaching, gained lots of experience and with design and also CA and the business, and eventually moved onto a real structural firm with people who actually know how to do my job better than me. No clue why my first company DIDN'T spring for someone more seasoned instead of paying me to rack up the overhead in self-teaching, but hey, worked out great for me and my present firm.

On being a young structural person: I think we're in a tough industry - especially vertical buildings. There's so much competition and we get so much pressure to come in with really low fees. By nature, because of the complexity we often face in design (that seemingly escapes owners and architects) we must take the time to carefully arrive at a final design that really works, covers all our bases, and is build-able and economic. Some projects this is cut-and-dry, others not so much. I'm really surprised that the current trend in compensation isn't more favorable, but looking at industry, I can see why.

@Gerry: Sounds like you have all the right stuff. I'd look 5 years down the road and decide where you'll be in the best position then. If you've got upper management written all over you and your current firm can get you there, stick it out. If Six figures is never in your future no matter how hard you work, move on.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Structural Engineering magazine just came out with some salary info - check it out..

 

[HuckleberryFinn]

@Greg LoCock

Possibly because they have shortages of people with that level of experience that are willing to jump firms for that compensation level?

I'm a recent graduate myself, BS in 09' and MS 10' with about six months experience at a small Arch/Industrial consulting firm. I came in with a friend of mine that graduated BS 10' from my college. We are both making well below what ASCE, Salary.com, Go Structural and any other body that issues surveys says we should be making mainly due to how easy it would be to replace us and the current economic climate. My firm recently hired on a PE with 5 years experience (just received his PE)and had to pay out approximately 35% more than either of us are receiving to lure him away from his old firm. I don't think he really tried that hard at negotiating either from the feeling I get from his personality.

I think right now AEC is something of a reverse bell curve. You have loads of talented people on either end of the experience spectrum but little in the middle.

 

[Lion06]

Huck, if you're well below the curve, then so is the new guy even if he's making 35% more than you are. If he came from another company I wouldn't bet that his increase was substantial.

 

[HuckleberryFinn]

Lion,

So is 35% is a fairly "standard" growth rate for the first five years of employment then? Roughly a seven percent salary increase a year? I don't know, that seems high to me unless you're jumping firms every two or three years. Especially considering how hard the last two or three years have been on most AEC firms.

Although when I punch numbers on his circumstances in the online sites, it IS below the median, although not quite below the 25th percentile like my comrade-in-arms and myself.

 

[B16A2]

Gerry,
My point is, you shouldn't feel taken advantage of if your company invested the significant amount of time to train you. Think of all the billable hours YOU took out of their profitability to get you going. This training that you received can be taken to whichever company you choose, for the rest of your career. You're only at the 2 year mark, and I dont think you can immediately fault them for wanting a little return on their investment.

Honestly, you sound a little overconfident and ungrateful.

 

[GerryBertier]

@ Patgeotech - Yes, my boss does know how I feel about my compensation. His responses are generally not specific to what could be done. He seems like he completely understands how I feel, yet nothing has changed nor has he brought it up again.

@jtx - Thanks for your insight. I could be in a MUCH MUCH worse of situation. I like to think I'm where I'm at because of my hard work, not because of blind luck. I love my job and I enjoy waking up for work every morning. I'm constantly thinking about the current "fire" or problem I'm attempting to solve at work. I don't plan on burning my bridges, thats for sure.

@VTEIT - My company doesn't have "positions" or "job titles". We are simply referred to being part of an individual department. While my responsibilities and workload is ever changing, a "promotion" could never happen, as I don't have a job title. I'm given the work I'm able to get done, and as I learn and gain more experience, I'm given more and supervised less.

@Mike - Thanks for the heads up. I got the magazine Friday at work, but didn't have a chance to page thru yet. I'll take a look.

@B16 - I do agree that they have invested in me. I'd like to think all of the time I spent making $12 an hour (w/o benefits) during college was a great way to minimize the companies hit on profitability. But I do understand I did take away many billable hours away from the principle, who helped guide and teach me all I know. BUT, I'm still having a hard time justifying receiving a salary at under market value. The facts are that I did work at the company before becoming a full time employee and graduated. If anything (compared the market), my hit on profitability would be LESS than the average because of this. So I'm not sure I can agree based on that justification.

Lastly, I could be overconfident. I'm ok with pushing at management and understanding its risks. I want to take risks. I'm young and I don't have dependents. I'm not stuck at my location. I come to work everyday to learn as much as I can, and work as hard as I can and make money. I have nothing else to worry about. I'm committed 100% to my work as I've put it ahead of everything else in my life. I refuse to be content. If that means I'm overconfident and ungrateful, so be it.

 

[abusementpark]

GerryBertier,

I think you are right on the money (no pun intended). The fact that they were able to spend all that time training you at a deeply discounted student rate is significant to your current value to company. Based on the level of responsibility you have described, I'd say it has paid off for them. You should most certainly be making at least the industry average for your region. It even sounds like you even have a good case to be a little above that.

If you like everything about your job except the money, then I would stay put for a bit. At the next year-end review or meeting in which salary is discussed I would reiterate your concerns and back it up with reported salary data. See if their attitude soon changes. They may be more motivated to give what you deserve once the market regains some strength.

 

[B16A2]

It sounds like you've made up your mind that your bosses are tight wads and that you're getting screwed. That's not a good state of mind to be in at work.

Interview at a few places and see what they offer you to give you a real market value. I'm not sure gostructural is all that accurate and/or unbiased.

the grass is always greener on the other side isn't it?

 

[KENAT]

Until you get there and discover it's astro turf, sure.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[jpankask]

I've just scanned the answers, so I apologize if I'm repeating what's already been said. Your market value is whatever people are willing to pay you for your experience and what you can add to the company. Salary surveys don't really give you accurate information on that. The only true was to find your market value is to get some job offers and see what others are willing to pay you. At 2 years experience, it is very difficult to guage where you fit into a salary survey anyway.

It does sound like you have a fair amount of responsibility for 2 years experience. While I agree that your employer should not have said to you that basically you are lucky to have a job...the fact is there are a good number of engineers in some parts of the country who don't have a job. You are in a pretty good position in that you aren't tied down to your employer. You can either keep working hard, have a good attitude and prove to your employer why you are worth more, go find another job or go get some job offers and use that as leverage to get more compensation. Those are in my order of recommendation, since you state you are happy with your current employer. Using a job offer to get more compensation can backfire on you unless you are extremely valuable to your company and know each other very well.

 

[GerryBertier]

I only know how one lawn looks. So its only natural for me to want to see what other grass looks like. I will continue to see what the my real market value looks like by following some new opportunities and see where they take me.


Thanks for the advice everyone. All of the opinions really do help me put my situation into a better perspective.

I will continue to put experience first, and work towards my next goal of becoming a licensed SE.

Thanks again.

 

[GregLocock]

That seems like a good attitude. Just bear in mind that your utility is increasing very rapidly at the moment, over the next couple of years your pay should rise to cover that and more.



Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[Structura1Engineer]

Gerry,

I know most people don't like threads being dug up, but I was wondering if you could follow up on this now that it has been a few months. I am in a similar situation myself and just feel like I'm being low-balled even though my department is the most profitable part of the company (small structural dept in a medium sized arch firm). I myself am PE/SE bound, staring to manage my own profitable projects and like you am happy with where I am at.

I was hired out of a bout of unemployment (a year), having to relocate across the country and was willing to work for peanuts as long as it was a good engineering job (and it is). Because of this I accepted the position at a salary less than the average until I could at least prove my worth.

Any advice?

 

[GerryBertier]

SE -

I'd be happy to provide an update.

I'm currently still with the same employer. At 2 years my employer ended up giving me a 5% pay raise. The week leading up to my date, the company decided to cut everyone's hours 10% and also cut pay accordingly, except my department since we were still busy. Under the circumstances, I was pretty happy with the pay bump considering most others were having their time/wages cut.


Almost 3 months later my department is still stacked with work, and quality is starting to go out the window. My boss has spent maybe 10 hours of review on my calculations/drawings and the job is 100% CD. The building is over 20 million construction cost. I know we are strung thin, but I'm a little disappointed in oversight/direction of my boss. Its only a matter of time until problems occur.

I ended up pursuing another position were they wanted 3-5 years experience and master's degree. It was at an Architecture/SE firm that does projects 2x-10x the size of my current. It is what I would consider a step up from my current job. I made it to the final 3 applicants, but ended up not getting the position.

I still have my eyes open for new jobs, but I'm not finding too many. I'm getting a decent amount of calls from a recruiter, but none have been structural design for architects. Most have been specialty engineering (I like dealing with steel/concrete/wood/masonry) and contract positions.

What I've become to realize is that jobs like mine are very few and far between. I've basically accepted the fact that I'm stuck here until I pass the SE. I've also been focusing on my relationships with the local contractors/architects/engineers.

As for advice?

I don't really have any. Be happy that you wake up everyday to a job you love. Develop business relationships. Notice where you can improve you companies practices. Start saving up your money. Prepare for the time when you can be the one providing the jobs.