Your grades in university and where you are now 6

[eliou]

Hey there,

What are your thoughts on how well you did in university and where you are now? Do you think you would have a better job if you worked harder and got better grades? Anyone ever fail a course and felt that it shut doors?

 

[SomptingGuy]

In the absence of experience, grades may help get you onto the first rung of the ladder. Once on the ladder, having the relevant degree (or in some cases, any degree) becomes a tick-box item.

 

[2dye4]

Employers believe grades are a measure of ambition. Those with average grades just didn't go for the goal. I am not defending this screening method but I tell you it is true of many hiring managers. They want people with ambition and drive to succeed in the company. None of this is much related to engineering ability. Matter of fact it just may be inversely related. Most of the best engineers I know of don't have a preponderance of external recognition desire. They get a kick out of figuring things and making accurate judgements.

 

[Ashereng]

I was pretty average in my grades, and I believe that I am fairly average in my industry.

Every employer wants an above employee. Most people, when asked, usually believe that they are above average. In reality, most people are probably average - and I think that is okay.

There is usually very few really above average people, and there is usually very few really below average people - most people are usually fairly average.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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[Sideswiper]

I had a 3.2 as an undergrad and a 3.5 in my master's. Not terrific grades but better than a lot of people I knew in school.

As a young electrical engineer interested in power, I think I got hired because I had a pulse and could fog a spoon when placed in front of my mouth. If that isn't true, when all the senior power employees retire at the same time it will be.

 

[MechanicalChef]

Upon graduation, my GPA was 3.1, and I fell into the premiere (aerospace) R&D group in a company of about 10000. While I might have had more options upon graduation if my GPA was a bit higher, I did have a few leads. What got me in the door was extra curricular work I undertook during my last two years at the university level. The work was similar to what I am doing now. (I was never able to land a co-op or internship)

 

[SylvestreW]

Went to a top school (in Canada) but sat in the middle of the pack. I really can't say if there's a correlation between where I am now and my school since there's no basis for comparison.
I have zero idea if I'd be here today if I went to another school, or for that matter, if getting higher marks would mean I'd be better off. It's a guess on anyone's part.

But I'm happy where I am (for the most part), I'm in grad school doing a M.Eng part-time and I have my P.Eng (P.E. for the yanks). And the company I'm working for now never even saw my transcript/marks.

I think the degree is 95% (or higher) of the value, and the marks/school only matters a bit.

 

[Senselessticker]

There was another post about this some time ago. My GPA was aweful (<2.5). Of course I never had the chance to interview with the big companies. I hired on with a small company right after graduation (who didn't care one bit about my gpa), and have done very well since then. I think the learning curve basically becomes flat with respect to effort after there is enough knowledge to attain a "C" (in engineering courses). Working for the "A" always seemed like wasted time/effort to me. I spent my time instead developing my hobbies. I'm thankful now.

 

[redbridge]

My GPA was 2.6 and I was on probation when I graduated. I was never asked what my gpa was. I passed the E.I.T. and PE with no problems. I wouldn't be any better off if I had a 4.0 gpa (I work with someone who had a 4.0 from the same univ. I went to).

 

[macmet]

I agree with the last two posts. My gpa was somewhere around a 2.9. The company I work for saw my final year project and offered me a job, but other than that I was never asked anything about grades, etc. I think I am getting great experience and I think this position is a better than a lot of people who had better grades than I did. They were interested in the name of the company they worked for than the actual position, or so it seemed.

Having said that, I do know that of a fantastic job (imo) that required a really high average to even get an interview. A friend of mine got that job and it still seems like an incredible position.

 

[Murdul]

I attended a small engineering school in the mid-west. I graduated about a year ago with a 3.2 GPA, only had one internship and was never really involved with any campus activities. But after graduation I got offered more money than most of the other graduates in my program. My work experience as a server and assistant manager at a reataurant was by best asset. They looked at my transcripts, but I think the experience I had dealing with people everyday was what got me the job.

Being an engineer kicks a lot of butt, especially compared to serving rich people seafood they can't pronounce.

 

[Senselessticker]

I hear you Murdul, I spent almost 10 years in the resturant business. And its what put me through school (plus a couple of loans). I worked everywhere from a bbq joint to fine dining. I worked in virtually every position a resturant had to offer (server, bartender, manager...and yes sometimes a dishwasher). However, I came out with people skills that are off the charts (compared to most engineers I think). And THAT is a major bonus in the engineering world and has helped me 10 fold in my engineering career success.

My boss recently asked me about a person he was planning on interviewing. This guy was a 3.9+ GPA type and gradutated from the same school in the same year as me. When asked...all I could say was: "Well..he blew all the curves on test, sat in the front row, never missed class, and was one of the first to catch a prof's mistake on the board".

I was amazed that this guy was considering a position equal with my own in a small company. Shouldn't he be "fast tracking" in big-company-corporate-America somewhere?

 

[HgTX]

"I was amazed that this guy was considering a position equal with my own in a small company. Shouldn't he be "fast tracking" in big-company-corporate-America somewhere?"

Maybe he likes small companies.

I sat in the back row of the class, not the front, but I was one of those who had a 4.0 GPA, blew the curves, etc. I took a rinkydink state job because it was geographically convenient and the work was interesting.

Hg

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[NJH1982]

Overall GPA 3.11 and my Engineering GPA was 3.35 if I remember correctly and I passed the FE on my first attempt. I was phenomenal at thermodynamics, fluids, heat and mass transfer, and thermal component design. Now I am working as a Manufacturing Engineer, far removed from my strongest areas.

Based on the engineers from my graduating class good grades and the EIT certification were of little to no help at all. Many of my friends did not pass the FE and had grades well below mine. However, they received jobs much sooner, and unlike me they received jobs they actually wanted within their field of interest! So, what did help? Internship experience that was relevant to the job they were applying for.

 

[lewtam]

Can someone help me out with the US grade point scale? My university (In'Straya) has a grading system from 1-7 with 3 being a pass average.

I managed passes (barely) in subjects I wasn't interested in but couldn't say I benefited from the experience.

My all time best for a subject - no lectures attended, no notes taken, no study groups participated in, didn't even know I was enrolled in the subject (Advanced Dynamics) after my course adviser told me I was supposed to take it next semester, but didn't tell admissions. Found out the day before that yes, I was enrolled, yes I have to pay for it and yes, the exam is 9:00AM tommorrow. Passed through the numb, oh sh*t, procrastinative stage that a few in this thread would know well by watching Conan the Barbarian on television. Opened text book 10:30PM and found out I liked the coursework, worked through the night on the end of chapter questions. Turned up at exam having slept 1 hour and ended up doing well. Passed the subject, subject matter forgotten by that afternoon.

LewTam Inc.
Petrophysicist, Leading Hand, Natural Horseman, Prickle Farmer, Crack Shot, Venerable Yogi.

 

[Kriegen]

As far as it went for me, I had a little problem in school trying to get an internship. In fact never got one. I went on to work for some company that promoted me to engineer once I finished school. When getting hired at another company, the new company wanted to see my transcript but didn't seem to care because they wanted me ASAP. My overall GPA 2.7, and I failed Thermodynamics and Calculus 2 twice each. After those two classes I got my act together and started making A's and some B's.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

lewtam,

US grades are (typically) on a 4.0 scale.

4.0 'A'
3.0 'B'
2.0 'C'
1.0 'D'
0.0 'Fail'

Many schools also offer grades such as A/B (3.5) or B+ (3.33) as well.

I can't speak for all schools so I'll use mine as an example:

-You could be kicked out of the engineering program with a GPA less than 2.5
-A GPA of at least 3.0 was required for admission to all graduate programs (and the average GPA of students accented to graduate school there was 3.4)
-Big name companies (GE, 3M, etc) recruiting at the school would usually require a GPA of 3.5 or better.

 

[gpace]

it took me 3 tries to get through differential equations. I think the profs at my school got sick of looking at me every semester until i passed. I passed the FE & PE and have not done a single differential equation since. No one has ever asked for a transcript or questioned me about failing differential equations.
For some engineering jobs such as "field engineering" on big nuke jobs etc a lower gpa seems to be a hidden advantage due to the fact that skilled trades (iron workers, pipe fitters, carpenters etc) seem to eat the 4.0 student/smart kid types for lunch. Big construction jobs are like a combination of a prison and a middle school playground as far as social etiquette goes so having some people skills helps when dealing with the "trades" QC and QA. Field engineering is a whole branch of engineering from design engineering that universities cover. But these people skills usually go hand in hand with a lower GPA. That is my experience. But to cap off this rant a lower GPA and a few F's on the report card should not keep you from finding a good job.

 

[GregLocock]

Ah, the old inverted snobbery gambit.

It is illogical, and at least in my experience, irrelevant.

I've never noticed that stupid, or lazy, people are more socially adept than clever, or hardworking, people. Have you, as a rule?



Cheers

Greg Locock

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[Lion06]

gpace-
A few F's would absolutely kill your GPA. Where I work, not only do they expect you to come from a good school, but you are also expected to have impeccable grades.
I am sure there are smaller engineering companies that do cool projects that don't care as much; however, as a general rule a few F's would easily kill your chances at getting a "really good" job at a "really good" firm.
I had a somewhat difficult time getting my job (which is fantastic) just because my program is somewhat unknown (and my overall GPA was 3.86, technical GPA 3.92). If I had had "a few F's", I never would have been offered this job.
I recently had my 1-year review and it was outstanding! I think my boss was completely surprised at how I have performed given that I was coming from a smaller program and did not have a master's.
The bottom line is that your grades definitely help you get your first job, after that it is up to you.

 

[gpace]

GregLocock -If i played the "old inverted snobbery gambit" it was not my intention. (although i am going to add that saying to my warchest of sayings.) Did not mean to go down that path.
I was drawing way too broad of generalizations about people. Let me back track, I have worked for three companies that are ENR top 30 contractors over the last 15 years and their recruiters had specific criteria for specific jobs. The desired skill set for "field engineers" they recruited was different than the desired skill set for the "design engineers". Most people did not get offered jobs in both areas. Usually one or the other. And one of the "possible" indicators of these skill sets was GPA. The people doing the design engineering "generally" had higher GPA's than the "field engineers" out on the project site. Most of the field engineers were 2.3 to 3.0 gpa's. Almost to a person. And from what i was told "design engineers" were generally 3.0 GPA and up. This seemed to be the way one company recruited. (they are usually #1 or #2 in the ENR contractor rankings.) I know if they wanted to hire only 3.5 GPA or above for field engineering positions they could do it as they recruit nationally.
For what ever reasons there was a marked difference in the GPA's of "field engineers" vs "design engineers." And when they interviewed me coming out of school they did not even blink at my low GPA for a field engineering job but for a design engineering job on the same project i was not their guy.

And granted a low GPA has probably gotten my resume sent to a monstrous number of round files over the years (i am sure of this) but i have also had great jobs with ENR top 30 contractors also, where my skill set fit with their needs and GPA was not a factor.
I guess part of my point was there are a lot of people with 2.2 gpa's working for Bechtel, Kiewit, Washington Group, Fluor, Parsons etc. (great companies) and a low GPA does not mean you are doomed to work the swing shift at Ed's Pizza, Engineering and Concrete in Fort Dodge, Iowa for eternity. There are great jobs out there for people with low GPA's. GPA is not the end all be all of getting a good job, it is one of many factors that recruiters take into account. It might help it might hurt. That was another part of my point. I hope this attempt at an explanation was better than the last.