Zero vs the letter "O" Font

[pdybeck]

What does everyone do to distinguish between zeroes and the letter "O" on their drawings. I have only located one font type that looks halfway decent and distinguishes between them by placing a slash through the zero. The font type is SB Font. This issue crops up when we reference alpha numeric part numbers (from the vendor) on our purchase part drawings. This is really a SolidWorks question and a global engineering drawing question. If I were to decide right now, we would use SB Font on the portion of the note that contains alpha numeric part numbers. I am just looking to see how others may have addressed this issue, as I'm sure people beside ourselves here at my company have already stumbled across this one. If it were up to me, the letter "O" would never be allowed in company part numbers, just like certain letters should not be used to denote revision level. Is there a standard that defines any of this? TIA.

Pete

 

[SBaugh]

Use a font the shows the "O" round that the zero to be Oblonged "0".

You should have a system setup at your company that would specifiy when, where and what was used.

Example - Maybe the zero should be used only as the the third character and the "O" is only used as the 5th. If your company was to setup standards like these, then there would be no confusion.

The last 2 companies I have worked for had this as common practice to have a standard way setting up their part numbers. Maybe you already have a way... then maybe it's time for a change.

But most of all if you can avoid using them it should be considered... or at least don't use the letter "O" and just stay with the number "0".

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

faq731-376

 

[pdybeck]

Maybe I need to expound or re-explain... I am talking about when we have a purchase part drawing where a part number from another company is referenced (not our own part number). We can't control what practives those other companies follow. Sometimes those companies use a O or a 0 in their part number. We need to show that on our drawing. Sometimes a O or a 0 are both not in the part number, its just one or the other. So, how can someone looking at that number easily distinguish whether its a 0 or O (hard to tell here)? A slash through the zero easily does this. I have found that SB Font accomplishes this. When I said ... "If it were up to me, the letter "O" would never be allowed in company part numbers, just like certain letters should not be used to denote revision level.", I was talking about all other companies following a standard for not having the letter O be allowed in part numbers - just like they shouldn't be using certain letters to denote revision level. Our company stays away from these issues by only using numbers for part numbers (no letters). Is there a standard that defines this? What does everyone else do when they call out purchased part numbers from another company where a zero or the letter O is used? Those were the things I was looking for. We can't be the only company that has come across this issue, that's why I decided to ask how others have addressed this.

Pete

 

[ctopher]

We use Arial. It works for us and everyone from vendors to purchasing to machinists toinspection know the difference. If someone knows what they are looking at on a dwg, they know how to interpret O and 0. If your company insists using something else, search for a font that works for you.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

 

[CADShark]

Ctophers right, you need to find a font that fits the needs of your company. We use Verdana. It is very close to Helvetica, which is a very commonly use font in drawings. I think that you'll get quite an arguement from your company if you suggest to stop using the letter "O".

"Perfection - a result of many mistakes."
BJH

 

[pdybeck]

Guys,

Are you not reading my post, or was I not clear? I was asking what your company does as far as display of the letter O versus zero on a drawing. My copmany does not put the letter "O" in our internal part numbers, but other companies we purchase from do. We reference other copmany's part numbers on our pruchase part drawings to clearly define approved sources for the part. There is no getting around that. It has nothing to do with my company's part numbering scheme, but rather a way to distinguish between O and zero on a drawing. Maybe I should not have brought part numbers into the discussion, b/c I seemed to have confused everyone. I have found SB font to place a slash through the zero and this is acceptable for us on our drawings. SB Font was one of the only ones. That is our solution, what is yours? Sorry for confusion.

Pete

 

[wgchere]

There are very few fonts that have an inditinguishable O and zero. The reason for this is that mumbers and letters have different origins. Our alphabetic elements date back to 1st milennium BC Phonecia, our numbers date to near the end of the 1st millenium AD and were imported from Arabic. Zeros are nearly always oblong or oval, O's are nearly always circular or elliptical. Most catalogue type fonts I have seen have a clear distinction, but if you have a font with the slahed zero that may be clearer—except that some people slash the O.

 

[smcadman]

We use Ariel also. A zero is oblong/oval, while the capital letter "O" is round. Also the letter spacing is easier to read, such as 1 1/16" does not look like 11/16".

Flores
SW2006 SP1.0

 

[MadMango]

I've never seen slashed O's only 0's.

Pdybeck, to answer your question, ASME Y14.100-2000, section D9.5 Drawing Number Structure says drawing numbers shall not exceed 32 characters, can include numbers, letters and dashes with the foloowing limitations:

Letters I, O, Q, S, X and Z shall not be used in the development of new drawing numbering systems.

Did that help?

[green]"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."[/green]
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[pdybeck]

MadMango,

Would this apply to part numbers as well as drawing numbers? I guess they aren't really the same, even though I prefer to name a drawing by the part number that it defines. Thanks for the reference.

 

[MadMango]

I would say yes. According to ASME Y14.100-2000, section D7 Part or Identifying Number, it says:

The Part or Identifying Number (PIN) shall consist of letters, numbers or combinations of letters and numbers, which may or may not be separated by dashes or slashes that are assigned to uniquely identify a specific item. The PIN shall be or shall include the design activity drawing number, and may include a suffix identifier...

[green]"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."[/green]
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[pdybeck]

MadMango,

Thanks very much for the info... So it appears that certain letters should not be part numbers/drawing numbers just like they should not be used in revision identification - according to ASME Y14.100-2000. I checked out Arial font. We normally use Century Gothic font on our drawings and I think Century Gothic actually distinguishes the zero and letter O a little better than Arial. Still not as distinguishable as SB Font for this situation. We will be using SB Font just for the referenced part number portion that is displayed on our purchase part drawings if a zero or letter O is used on a referenced part number.

 

[ctopher]

pdybeck,
I am clear what you are saying. Your company needs to learn to tell the differnece between O and 0 when reading the English language. The other's suggestions are clear also. It doesn't make a difference how the rest of us do it, your company obviously does not like how O's and 0's look alike. Pick a font that is acceptable for you.
If a P/N has a 0, use a 0.
Sorry, not trashing anyone, just stating what it is.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

 

[pdybeck]

ctopher,


I got what people were saying. Part of it was helping, the other part was a little off base. Sorry for sounding a little gruff. I certainly didn't mean that - I was just looking for info that would help me and was trying to keep the post on track for that and not going off into the weeds about part numbering changes that we should make. MadMango's post was helpful to clear up that if companies were following ASME, then this predicament would not have arisen. But, its a big world and companies don't follow suggestions and we need to be able to distinguish one thing from the next. There doesn't appear to be a standard that defines how a zero and letter O should be distinguished in appearance on a drawing and that is the gray area we are in. Certainly a number of font types are valid and I recognoze that, was just looking for what everyone else does. Thanks for the input of all.

 

[SBaugh]

Letters I, O, Q, S, X and Z shall not be used in the development of new drawing numbering systems.

I agree with this and I ahve seen this many years ago. But if I remember right that was meant for just Revisions and not part numbers, etc...

Thanks,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

faq731-376

 

[ctopher]

pdybeck


Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

 

[pdybeck]

ctopher,

ditto.

 

[TateJ]

I would add to that.
Use either:
M or N... not both
F or E... not both
V or W... not both

Windows 2000 Professional / Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer
SolidWorks 2006 SP01.0 / SpaceBall 4000 FLX
Diet Coke with Lime / Dark Chocolate
Lava Lamp​

 

[Pevac]

Just to add my 5 cents worth... I think you can get any graphic design company or individual with a vector based graphic program to modify a font for your use. If you are happy with a single font for everything, it may be easier to modify this font so that 0 (Zero) is diplayed with the line through it.

In fact, there may be some shareware proggies that would allow you to do this on your own. Just put in a line over your 0, save the font and viola.

But yeah, strangely enough it has not been identified as a common problem. Maybe because the people (purchasing et al) that get confused by this actually do not have any pushing power in the companies?

 

[Mindnumb]

Just adding my two cents, hope it can be of use...
I am expecting this concerns digital documents that you can edit, if not, this method is hard to apply

How about a simple copy and paste operation into exel or other software that distinguish between numbers and letters?
If you copy the O (or 0) in question into a exel cell, you will be able to see if its a number or a letter, as these kinds of programs disregard the font, and only looks to the actual meaning of the symbol.

Best of luck, Bernt Ødegård, Oslo, Norway.