2 dead in Tesla accident "Noone wasdrivingthe car" 15

[MartinLe]

https://www.click2houston.com/news/...er-fiery-tesla-crash-in-spring-officials-say/

“no one was driving” the fully-electric 2019 Tesla when the accident happened. There was a person in the passenger seat of the front of the car and in the rear passenger seat of the car.

the vehicle was traveling at a high speed when it failed to negotiate a cul-de-sac turn, ran off the road and hit the tree.

The brother-in-law of one of the victims said relatives watched the car burn for four hours as authorities tried to tap out the flames.

Authorities said they used 32,000 gallons of water to extinguish the flames because the vehicle’s batteries kept reigniting. At one point, Herman said, deputies had to call Tesla to ask them how to put out the fire in the battery.

 

[1503-44]

Those "I am not a robot" click pictures had better start including trees and telephone poles to better train Elton's AI to avoid those objects.

Seems like Teslas will have to come with their own fire extinguishing system and ... an interlock to deactivate motor when nobody is actually sitting in the drivers seat.

I can't wait for the those little personal air transporters to start flying around.

 

[RedSnake]

The problem is you can't really put the "fire" out since it is a chemical reaction with electrons changing place and jumping around trying to equalize the charge between the atoms it does not need oxygen to "burn" or create heat.
The only thing you can do after it started is to freeze it down, to slow down the process.
But as soon you stopp doing that, it will start again.
It's almost like a little nuclear plant.
It will be the biggest issue to resolved with these electric batteri vehicles.

We have had at least two incidents here with busses, same problem.
Here they are talking about ways to move the burning vehicles in a safe way to a place where they just can let them burn out in a controlled environment.

Best Regards A


“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[FacEngrPE]

NTSB agrees that firefighting information needs to be provided to first responders, by the car makers.

NTSB says vehicle battery fires pose risks to 1st responders; By TOM KRISHER; January 13, 2021

Information is starting to be available. (this is a 1.5 hour webanar).
Responding to Electrical Vehicle Battery Fires - NFPA Webinar •Mar 17, 2014

The NoBody driving problem is a clearly a missing (perhaps unidentified requirement), defective, or defeated interlock. Either way this is a common enough situation in industrial safety, car makers should be aware that safety interlocks need to be very robust.

Fred

 

[itsmoked]

car makers should be aware that safety interlocks need to be very robust

I recall reading a paper on 'paying attention' sensors that car makers were developing. It is a camera with simple AI that would watch the driver's eyes and know whether they were paying enough attention or dropping their end of the ball at which point the car would have fits and hand it back over to the human. I got the impression it was an important liability reducer. Sure doesn't seem like Tesla seems to care.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[LionelHutz]

Tesla still doesn't care that their cars, which were supposed to be fully self driving by now, can drive into solid objects. Why would they care about the driver paying attention?

 

[BrianPetersen]

GM SuperCruise uses the strategy that itsmoked describes (and others). Tesla doesn't care, and I don't understand the free pass that they seem to have been given.

 

[MartinLe]

I think lane following without supervising the driver can also have this effect - jolting the driver awake. Let's hope this feature won't be abused: "I can drive while half asleep, the car will wake me up if need be!"

Ok I think it will be abused like this now that I've typed it out. And a few years down the road someone will argue for longer allowed driving intervals for trucks etc, based on these features ...

 

[davefitz]

perhaps irrelevant, but what were the 2 occupants up to at the time of the accident that they would not seat one of them in the driver's seat? Also, a fire that takes 4 hrs to put out implies the Tesla might become the weapon of choice if a terrorist decides to take out a communication center or other strategic hub.

"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick

 

[LittleInch]

Showing off - "spoke to one man’s brother-in-law who said he was taking the car out for a spin with his best friend, so there were just two in the vehicle."

Apparently the owner was in the back seat - "Hey Joe, this thing can drive itself - just look!!"

I don't know what tesla is like when you try to take back control. My only experience of a lane guidance system was that you needed a fair force to prevent the car from nudging itself back into the lane you were trying to get out of. Can't stand the things.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[1503-44]

"- jolting the driver awake. " Tasar should do it. Obviously there's enough batteries. In fact, with no driver, all passengers should get a hit to knock some sense into them.

 

[dik]

Darwin is alive and well...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dik]

As more and more vehicles are being electrified, the fire issue is a little more of a concern... can you imagine a freeway 'pileup' with 50 vehicles involved? Lithium is one of the active metals, like sodium and potassium, and can combust with the application of water, generating hydrogen, which in the presence of air, burns.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Eufalconimorph]

Lithium in Lithium-ion batteries isn't really the concern, since it's not metallic lithium. The issue is that it's a battery fire, so the "fire" is just the result of things around the battery burning due to the exothermic chemical reaction. There doesn't have to be any combustion for the heat to be dangerous. You could get a battery "fire" (no flame, but dangerously hot gas output) in a pure argon atmosphere, for example. The only reason Lithium-based batteries are more prone to such reactions than lead-acid or other tech is that they have higher energy density, so they can put out a lot more heat.

 

[btrueblood]

"The issue is that it's a battery fire, so the "fire" is just the result of things around the battery burning due to the exothermic chemical reaction. "

Not quite. Lithium batteries in current mass production use flammable organic compounds as the battery electrolyte, so the battery itself can provide both ignition, heat and fuel.

 

[JStephen]

If you look at that street on the map, it's a very short, curved street, no straight-away on it at all. So it's not like the car was cruising the boulevards on its own, then came to a curve it couldn't negotiate.
Which leads me to wonder, assuming the police/news reports are otherwise correct, whether the car was actually in self-driving mode, or whether, say, the guy climbed in the back and pushed the accelerator with a stick, assuming it would then self-drive.
My thinking is that on a road like that, self-driving mode wouldn't have ever got it going fast in the first place.

 

[ImminentCollapse]

Sounds like we'll need to bring the liquidators out of retirement to fight these fires, if there are any left. Have the helicopters with hoppers of boron and concrete at the ready.

IC

 

[stevenal]

Speculating here, but perhaps the thought process was "If no one is driving, then no one can be cited for DUI" This would explain the poor judgement involved.

 

[GregLocock]

2 separate issues - Tesla has information freely available as to what to do with a battery fire. Waste of time trying to put the fire 'out', as it is internal to the battery. All you can do is keep things cool, lots of water. One might assume that firefighters have the responsibility to work out what to do with an EV that's on fire when that info is available. Sounds like this lot did the right thing.

Secondly, Tesla's legal bods have told the Californian government that FSD beta will NEVER be L3 or greater. As such the human driver is always the driver. FSD beta, legally, is a driver assist suite.



Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[dik]

Found this... didn't know what L3 was...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik