3-D Design? Pipe Stress Analysis? Structural Support Analysis? 1

[reades]

To all,

I have taken the initiative to find a software program, which would be better suitable for my companies needs in performing more cost affectively in their current/future projects. The only problem, I'm not sure what programs are on the market that will meet/perform to the necessary tasks.

The software must meet 3 criteria: The ability to perform 3-D Design layouts, Pipe Stress Analysis, and Structural Support Analysis.

As you all know Pipe Stress and Structural Support Analysis software do not easily cross from analysis to 3-D design software or vice versa, as an example, AutoCAD and PipePlus.

You can easily find a software package that performs 3-D design or Pipe Stress Analysis or Structural Analysis alone, but is there a program that will perform all three?

What I would like to find is a software program, which will be able to meet all three needs and be able to produce either an individual output of each criteria or a combined output of all 3 criteria. Can anyone suggest such a program or does anyone know of programs that easily integrate with each other to give me the results I am looking for?


Thank you everyone for your time and efforts.
Fellow Engineer,
Steve Reade
Northstar Ind.

 

[StressGuy]

I wouldn't count on it. I've seen a few 3D modeling programs that tried to include a pipe stress component, but have never worked well.

Truth is, those are three separate, very specialized functions. IMHO, if you are trying to cheap out in these areas, you are asking for trouble.

While piping designers, piping engineers, structural engineers and structural designers all need to work closely together as a team, each has a role to play and areas of the design that they need to focus on. Edward L. Klein
Pipe Stress Engineer
Houston, Texas

All opinions expressed here are my own and not my company's.

 

[Tuck]

I have had success in the past by using a combination of software packages to meet similar needs. Ansys FEA software, I believe, has a solution packages that combines structural necessities with internal flows. The 3D modeling aspect is best left to parametric software.

 

[reades]

There are two programs that come to mind...

Rebis and Caesar II, which might suit my needs, but I do not have any relevent experience with these programs to make a educated conclusion.

Can any one give me there opinion/expertice on Rebis and Caesar II as far as performance and weather or not either program will meet the three criteria of 3-D Design, Piping Stress Analysis, and Structural Stress Analysis, of which the three are integrated into one output file and can be utilized all at once?

Any help and opinions will be of great assistance. Thank you for your time and efforts.

Fellow Engineer,
Steve Reade
Northstar Ind.

 

[peglor]

ProEngineer integrated with ProMechanica is the only single interface software I can think of that would be able to do that. However, I have no experience in producing layouts in ProEngineer, so I don't know how good it is. Ask the ProEngineer forum.

 

[LSThill]

Hi reades (Mechanical)

CAESAR II Piping Stress Analysis using CADWork Pipe and Mutil-Steel on AUTO-CAD.

CAESAR II Piping Stress Analysis using Plant Space and Mutil-Steel 3D.

Leonard@thill.biz

http://www.thill.biz

 

[reades]

My concern, due to not being familiar with other Stress analysis programs, is how well they perform and what kind of quality they produce. Let us, for sake of example, compare Autocad with Pro-E. Autocad when presented with a 3-D design is cubersome and difficult to use depending on the application, where as Pro-E is designed to produce the results individuals and companies are looking for in a 3-D design software package.

I have been using Pipe Plus for close to 2 years now and have been very unsatisfied with how cumbersome it can be when producing out put files or Isometrics, mainly for the reason they (out put files and/or Isometrics) are both cluttered for readability and are time consuming to produce.

Also, due the fact that Pipe plus in and of it's self is not easily importable to a drawing package, such as Autocad and/or a Cad drawing from Autocad isn't exportable to Pipeplus, I have reservations on accepting software packages that require different software to produce some part of the output, mainly the Isometrics.

It is my belief that if a stress program is to be used accurately then the Isometrics and any other drawings should also be created by the same program to avoid any mistakes in design/drafting.

What is your opinion? Can you recommend any other programs other than Caesar II, which maybe useful and/or your experience with such problems?

Thank you for your time and efforts.

Fellow Engineer,
Steve Reade
Northstar Ind.

 

[MJCronin]

Steve,

CEASAR-II is the most used pipe stress analysis program in the world....and yes.... there have always been many problems with the generation of legible isometric drawings via CEASAR.

What you require does not seem to exist in the real world. In my opinion, most engineers performing pipe stress analysis and support design:

- Consider "program generated" isometrics as a "nice to have" but not absolutly necessary for project completion

- Work from orthographic piping drawings..drawings that must be generated for a contractor's bid package

- Do not perform a detailed anaylsis on all plant piping systems....therefore require a seperate 3D piping anaysis package.....when 3D drawings are even necessary.

- Use a group of prequalified "standard supports" for the support of piping systems.....supplemented with designs for "engineered supports" (typically spring hangers) that are project specific.

You integrated world of piping design/isometric generation and support design was a goal in the mid-eighties.....when the nuclear power plant biz was in it's zenith...... but it's implementation was never realized.

In my opinion.....it never will


MJC

 

[reades]

MJC,

It is true that most applications do not provide adequate isometric drawings, which are easy to follow with reference to the output data acquired during analysis, for example Algor PipePlus.

I suppose I am looking at it from the perspective of an individual who has/may never seen/use a stress analysis program and how easy it would be for that individual to follow the results. As most people would agree with out labels of any kind it is relatively impossible to determine what is presented before you with out any prior knowledge of the situation/project.

My goal is to find a program, which makes it easy to label/follow an isometric drawing created by the analysis program, but with the ability to be easily inputted into a cad package or exported from a cad package to the analysis program to allow for editing/labeling. Other wise, the whole process can be both time consuming and tedious to produce both a report and a clearly defined out put file for readability, with out the proper communication between the Analysis software and the Cad Software.

I am well aware of several programs:

1)Algor Pipeplus, bottom of the barrel software full of problems.

2)Caesar II, widely used software program, but really sure on how well it will perform the selected task.

3)Caepipe, not widely known but does not as many flaws as Algor. Customer support is exceptional.

4)Rebis Autopipe and it's additional software packages, which seems to be a well designed software package, but unaware of how well it performs.

Of those 4 software packages I have 2 yrs experience with Algor. Maybe I am hesitant on choosing another software package due to the fact my current experience with Algor has been dismal, primarily due to Algor's consumer relations and support, but not neglecting it's problematic errors with in the program. Or, maybe I am just trying to do my homework, so that I choose the software package that best suits my needs and is of top quality.


Does anyone know of a list, which gives me comparisons between Stress Analysis software packages, a representive over view of what the output looks like from each package and what has to be done to achieve an output, which is understandable and can easily be followed?

Every Stress Analyis software package claims to be far surperior than the others, but I want to see the actual comparison..

 

[StressGuy]

I don't think you're going to find a stress program that will generate results that are easy for a novice/non-user to use. Stress programs are designed primarily for in house analysis, not so much for reporting to an outside group.

Most of the work on projects that I've done, the client never sees, and usually never wants the stress reports.

On those occasions where a stress review for a client has been the purpose of the project (say, review and existing system that is having trouble and recommend fixes) I generally include all the relevant input/output files that would be useful to a technical specialist, but the meat of the "report" consists of narratively describing the problems found in a piping system and also describing the recommendations to fix those problems.

For these cases, usually a piping designer has had to go and make drawings from field measurements so the system could be analyzed. Those drawings become the basis for analysis and for making notes of recommended chagnes. I wouldn't rely on the graphics output from Caesar, or any stress program to communicate that kind of design information to a client. Edward L. Klein
Pipe Stress Engineer
Houston, Texas

All opinions expressed here are my own and not my company's.

 

[reades]

StressGuy,

Thank you for your input. I have not had as much experience in the stress field as I would like, but your input a long with the input from other experts has assisted me greatly in what my desired out come should be. As for experience, books are ok for relaying information and some knowledge, but actual situations of piping problems would be considerably better.

I am currently also trying to find magazine subscriptions in the piping stress engineering world that will also relate to me more information. Be it about computer related software programs for the stress engineering world or stories about real life projects and how they are solved.

Do you know of any Pipe Stress Engineering Societies or magazines, which I can subscribe or become a memeber?

Fellow Engineer,
Steve Reade
Northstar Ind.

 

[LSThill]

Hi reades (Mechanical)

Pipe Stress reading go to COADE Mechanical Engineering News Back Issues

http://www.coade.com

Newsletters 1987 to present.

Also, caesar form.

LC Peng, president of PENG ENGINEERING, is a leading authority in the field of pipe stress analysis and piping engineering.

LC Peng has authored, co-authored and presented many technical papers on these subjects. Electronic versions of his most popular papers are available below.

Please note, documents are in Adobe PDF format and require Adobe Acrobat Reader to view.

http://www.pipestress.com/Pages/PEpapers.html

Leonard@thill.biz