A creative way for a contractor to support a large culvert 7

[pelelo]

Hello,

Please let me know your thoughts about this:

I am working project which consist on placing a new culvert. The soils under the proposed culvert, in some areas are organic silts. As part of the recommendations, it was proposed to remove the organic soils and backfill with SP material and them place the culvert. The thickness of the backfill is 4 feet.

The contractor, instead proposed, to place just 2 feet of SP material, and on top, to place telephone poles and then after the culvert. The telephone poles are supposed to act as foundation materials.

The poles will be wood material and will be underwater througout the life of the culvert. The poles will be placed across the excavation, 2 feet on centers.

Assuming the poles are in good conditions, would you approve this change by the contractor?. see a sketch attached.

 

[fattdad]

no. The contractor's not the engineer. Why transfer all that risk to an entity that doesn't possess professional liability insurance? You are saving 2-ft of import - may be a good idea? Then again, not if it doesn't work!

f-d

ípapß gordo ainÆt no madre flaca!

 

[SlideRuleEra]

Would you approve this change by the contractor?.

Absolutely not. Once the "poles" are in place what does to Contractor propose to do?

Backfill between the poles with stone?
If so, what is the purpose of the "poles"... other than to charge the owner for them?

Leave the space between the "poles" empty, then form the bottom of the culvert on top of the "poles"?
Then only the "poles" support the culvert and all loads applied to it.

I don't believe the contractor knows what he is doing. To perform work as he has proposed, he will have to accomplish the most difficult part of the work:
Excavate poor soil and successfully backfill with two feet of stone. Then, instead of doing what is "easy", placing an additional two feet of stone, he wants to twiddle around with "poles".

IMHO, for his own good, make the contractor perform the work as designed.

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

 

[oldestguy]

leaving the organi silt, regardless of the culvert foundation type, there will be settlement as the fill is placed and the whole arrangement, including culvert will settle. Do the silt removal first.

 

[miningman]

Kinda depends on the terms of the contract. Fixed price ?? Cost reimbursible ??? Cost Plus??? Possibly counter offer the contractor with OKing the poles, but only if the space if filled with 30MPA concrete AT HIS EXPENSE!!!!!!!!

Let us knoe what his reaction is

 

[pelelo]

Thanks a lot.

I figured you will not accept such proposal by this contractor.

 

[EireChch]

If he puts the poles in vertically and not horizontally it would be ok

 

[cvg]

if this is lump sum, than the owner should share in the cost reduction. if it is cost plus, than make the contractor pay for the additional engineering analysis, since you have already designed it. there should be a life cycle analysis of the cost that will factor in for replacing the poles when they begin to rot in a few years and the culvert fails.

 

[kieran1]

See a contractor use this form of construction on a culvert in Africa. I would never advocate this.
The timbers will decay during seasonal weather patterns and compaction will be poor leading to settlement of the culvert and road.

Kieran

 

[PropertyGuy67]

I'm wondering why this contractor wants to bury telephone poles.

 

[pelelo]

This is just a creative way by the contractor to support the structure. Somehow he thinks he can make more progress than placing fill and compacting.

I already let him know to stick to the specs.

Thanks all for your support.