A little sanity ...

[rb1957]

from flight (on Friday) ...
Airbus pushes back ZEROe timeline and ditches A380 fuel cell flight-test plan
8 Feb 2025

Airbus has delayed the service-entry target for a hydrogen-powered aircraft developed under its ZEROe project by up to 10 years and axed plans to flight-test hydrogen propulsion systems,

 

[SWComposites]

Airbus has also cancelled their eVTOL project.

 

[3DDave]

Optimism is sometimes overcome by reality. The battery tech and hydrogen economy didn't happen. Sometimes things that are doubling in capacity over a short time, stop.

 

[rb1957]

and today ...

ATR delays Evo launch after technology ‘reality check’
12 Feb 2025

ATR has followed the lead of 50% owner Airbus and pushed back the service-entry target of its next-generation low-emission aircraft, citing technology maturity issues.

 

[jaceb]

finally....

 

[Sparweb]

citing technology maturity issues

Airbus pushes back ZEROe timeline and ditches A380 fuel cell flight-test plan

I wonder who held the line.
Was it a decision made internally by Airbus as their research unfolded?
Was it an external consultant who had access to decision makers?
Was it the vendor of these technologies that over-promised and under-delivered?
Was it the regulator who challenged Airbus to demonstrate reliability of these fuels?

 

[GregLocock]

Aviation Leak wittering about it https://aviationweek.com/podcasts/check-6/podcast-aviation-pulls-back-innovation

 

[SWComposites]

Was it a decision made internally by Airbus as their research unfolded?

Knowing Airbus, this is likely.

 

[SWComposites]

cripe, most of those fools on the AW podcast are just clueless.

 

[GregLocock]

Aye 1. to chatter or babble pointlessly or at unnecessary length

 

[rb1957]

maybe they're like the "aviation expert" the press wheeled out after the crash in Toronto ... the plane is designed for wings to break off.

and yes, I think there is something in than (not to leak fuel on a hard landing), it could very well be that the expert said one thing and the press wrote something different.

 

[rb1957]

Today from Flight ...

Beyond Aero reveals details about fuel-cell system for conceptual electric business jet
17 Mar 2025

French start-up Beyond Aero has “refined” the configuration of its conceptual eight-passenger hydrogen-electric business aircraft and says it is seeking regulatory exemptions required to eventually certify the type.

at last, some sense of reality ...
but check out the tip pods ...

 

[RoarkS]

Hey! Cessna 340 tanks!

 

[SWComposites]

key word there is "eventually"

 

[rb1957]

yep !

 

[rb1957]

IDU ...
if the H2 is in liquid form then that'd require some truly frightening temperatures or pressures.
If the H2 is being sourced from some liquid (like ammonia) then why not use conventional fuel tanks ?

I understand that they are producing the electricity close to the storage to save pumping H2 gas (or liquid) around the plane.
If H2 being sourced from a liquid, then why not treat like fuel and plumb to the engines ?

 

[btrueblood]

Because burning H2 with air gives a lot of NOx?

 

[GregLocock]

I suspect that it is roughly twice as efficient to go H2->PEM->electricity->motor than H2+02 in a gas turbine.

 

[Lou Scannon]

How about at the system level, considering bulk, mass & consequent added drag of a fuel cell vs turbofan? If your motor would drive a turboprop, good marks for propulsive efficiency, but I assume lower productivity potential due to presumed lower cruising speed vs turbofan, never mind the presumed reduced payload of fuel cell system vs turbofan. I'm no expert, so educate me.

 

[3DDave]

At the system level every answer for aviation stinks. There are no good aviation answers as they all involve the word "cost."

Some answers are tolerable, but unless the system cost is less then it won't be widely adopted.

Even if H2 is more efficient in some way, it has to contend with the cost of the support system to get the energy stored in it back out again. Cost to produce, cost to transport, cost to store. No one has managed to deliver end-to-end systems at a decent cost compared to existing solutions.

I think the long term solution will be production of medium chain hydrocarbons, suitable for gas turbine engines from atmospheric carbon dioxide or captured emissions from natural gas combustion.