A Moral/Ethical/Professional Game 21

[DaveVikingPE]

Scenario:

Engineer X works for Firm A.
Engineer X is required to work 8 hours a day; he is assigned a slot from 0700 to 1600 - that includes an unpaid hour for lunch. This is company policy.

Engineer X accompanies Firm A's project team to a meeting with Client Z at the future jobsite.

Client Z desires that Firm A design a new, $10 million dual-use facility for producing both pornographic media for commercial retail distribution/sale and for publishing literature advocating cigarette smoking, dropping out of school, lowering the drinking age to 13, and encouraging lowering the age of sexual consent to 12.

The meeting runs late and Engineer X informs Project Manager J - in front of the meeting - that he must leave because a) by the time Firm A's team gets back to the office, Engineer X will have worked more than his required 8 hours, and b) he will miss his transportation home. Engineer X excuses himself from the meeting to catch the next bus back to the office.

Deconstruct the above in terms of morality, ethical behavior, and professionalism.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Engineer X is engaging in Malicious Obedience, presumably because Firm A treats him like chattel. Firm A would likely describe his behavior as unprofessional, on the papers they send to Unemployment Office.


In the parallel universe where our hero is Lawyer X, he will have similar rules of servitude, and it will be privately explained to him (he being slow on the uptake on account of being related to engineers) that he is expected to produce a certain number of billable hours each month, which will likely require him to work 16 hours a day.

But there are some differences in the lawyer's universe:

The meeting would run very long. The (law) Firm A would take everyone out to lunch, and later bill Client Z both for the lunch and for the time.

Then Lawyer X would go back to his office, in a limousine. The cost of the limo and the time spent in it would later be billed to Client Z.

Lawyer X would work late into the night. He would get hungry and order food from an expensive restaurant, delivered to his office. Client Z would be billed for the cost of the food, the delivery fee, the tip, and the time taken to consume the food.

Since Lawyer X was still working when the last bus went by, he goes home in a limousine. The limo and the time spent in it are billed to Client Z.

Before going to bed, Lawyer X, um, squeezes out the food consumed on behalf of Client Z, and reviews his notes of the day while doing so. The time is billed to Client Z.



In a couple of years, Engineer X might be lucky enough to pick up some work, constructing a new huge luxurious home for Lawyer X, who has retired.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[melone]

Morality - Did Engineer X leave because they had to get back to the office (to catch a ride home), or did they just not feel comfortable designing a building for "questionable" uses?

Professionalism - When Engineer X excused himself, was the meeting winding down, or was Engineer X watching the clock, waiting for the end of the work day?

 

[DaveVikingPE]

More info, though Mike got it (great term "malicious obedience"): The team from Firm A went to the meeting offsite in a company vehicle; the only way back to the office - save other transportation - is to wait until the meeting is over.

The meeting was running late - late enough for Engineer X to caclulate that he would be working too long and would miss his regular transportation home, unless he left early, that is, the meeting wasn't over when he excused himself. Assume that Engineer X understood that the meeting wasn't winding down anytime soon.

The rest is up to you, melone.

"Malicious Obedience" speaks volumes.

 

[EddyC]

Could "X" work more hours on some days and less on others? If "X" was required to stay past his/her transportation appointment, "A" should arrange alternate transportation.

 

[dcasto]

Engineers are professionals and Firm A should treat him as such. Engineer X should work whatever hours it takes to get his job done, 8 hours or 16 hours and Firm A should have policies to allow time swapping or something.

As a professionl company, Firm A should warn Engineer about the meeting so he can can adjust his transportation and if Firm A was unable too, then they should either accept Engineer X reason to leave or pay for a cab (or something).

As for the project itself, as a professional Enineer, X should not consider the purpose unless he is asked to supply or handle the contents of the building. If he has personal or religious beliefs that requir him not to, then he should resign. A good Firm would respect those beliefs and transfer him to another assignment UNLESS, Firm A and X had both agreed in the beginning that work may include such designs. In this case, how many porno places can be designed in a year. If the firm specialized in the manufacture of wepons and the engineer didn't believe in war and the Firm didn't tell X, but X said he objected to weapons, then X should be reassigned to all non weapons based projects.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

Good work, all!

Thanks for playing...

..the game has no end, either! Anyone can jump in!

 

[stevenal]

Careful about bringing up morality, since this can quickly get into religious discussion that is inappropriate here. I'll stick to the ethical/legal side.

Firm A is wrong if they are trying to claim X is exempt while treating him as non-exempt. If X has spent some time outside of the 0700-1600 range, they may be liable for back up OT.

Pornography minimizes the risk of STDs to a few while maximizing the number the number non-exposed individuals enjoying an act. Engineers who are pledged to public safety should support this idea.

Likewise, engineers should support the lowering of the drinking age or doing away with the concept altogether. When alcohol is simply a part of everyday life, Europe has proven that it is less of an issue. Making it is the forbidden adult activity that it is the USA makes it much more attractive and problematic.

 

[JStephen]

My opinion on the matter:
1) On the time issue, he should stay for the meeting and hash things out with the employer later if this is some sort of sore point with one party or the other.
2) On the moral/ethical/legal situation, he needs to discuss with the employer beforehand. The assumption here seems to be that the company is a "Do anything for a buck" company, and in that case, he is liable to have quite a few other issues with them as well. Engineers are expected to be honest, to be of "good character", however that is defined, and it's not unexpected that some employees would not be willing to work in support of some types of programs. If there is simply no limit as to what a person is willing to do for money, he's really not suited for the engineering field. And if there is a limit, you have to expect that it will not always coincide with the employer's limits.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

Excellent responses/takes on the situation.

My take:

1. The project manager needs to pick his team wisely. Engineer X' behavior is embarassing and unprofessional. However, Engineer X, as pointed out above, is, per the description, an "exempt" employee and behaves obeidiently (albeit maliciously). It is sage advice that the PM should coordinate the meeting in advance - especially pertaining to travel arrangements. If Engineer X - as detemrined in advance - will not be able to stay late, get him off the team.

2. Engineer X acted unprofessionally. He should have stayed late and worked it out later. His behavior makes Firm A look bad in the eyes of a customer and that's the kind of thing a customer won't forget.

3. Engineer X *may have* acted ethically. I'm saying he was ethical pertaining to his (implied?) contract with his employer. I'm saying he was not ethical pertaining to his employer's interests. This is a grey area for me.

4. Morally - well... Who is the arbiter of "good character"? My scenario implied that the activities in which Client Z engages are lawful and legal. Client Z also, implied, employs people, pays taxes, etc. Since when is "good character" impugned by "legal activities? Larry Flynt is a scoundrel in most "decent" people's eyes - yet what's he doing that's illegal? And as such he is entitled to equal protection and equal opportunity? He pays rent, taxes, etc. Now, Firm A may always choose to not do business with Client Z for whatever reason. Client Z most likely was granted a permit by the local community/state/etc. and thus has approval to conduct their business in said community.

More thoughts are welcome!

 

[kchayfie]

I don't think it is unprofessional to excuse yourself from a meeting that is running late if you do so in a polite and professional manner. Giving reason a) in front of the client isn't professional but reason b) is perfectly valid if explained properly. If Engineer X had no warning that the meeting might run late, he had no opportunity to make alternate transport arrangements, find someone else to pick up his kids or any of the other reasons why you should be allowed to leave on time if necessary.

As for the morality issues hinted at, Engineer X may be asked to design a lot of movie production facilities and printing houses. The building might be taken over by another group advocating abstinence (alcoholic and sexual)and lobbying for the banning of cigarettes. Activities which might be just as offensive to a different group of people.

 

[GregLocock]

If X's hours of work stipulate 0700 to 1600, no quarter given, then as of 1601 to 0659 his time is his own, ethically or morally and legally.

If they want him to stick around they either change the contract, or organise with him in advance.

That is a non-professional contract, therefore it is unfair to expect a professional performance. I've never seen a contract that doesn't include a getout clause like "or as necessary for operational reasons", but that is not what is being postulated.

I don't see how the intended use of the plant actually affects the argument about time, that is a whole separate question. Would I feel comfortable working on a church? No, not really. Would I do it? Hmmm. It's probably less directly harmful than building a land-mine factory, or a cigarette factory, but then it's probably got more potential for long term societal damage, although I suppose the average church only has a small effect on society as a whole. There again cigarettes kill one at a time. Well I'm obviously on the Dark side since I work on cars.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[dik]

Engineer X should have found out about the project prior to the meeting and voiced any objections prior to attending the meeting. If he has a problem with the project he should request that another engineer be assigned to it. He can do that for moral reasons (no problem there). I hear that Bob's a scumbag and will work on anything! He could take in the meeting if Bob wasn't available. I've declined projects because of a client (the developer had been unreasonable with a contractor on an earlier project and I didn't like his methods) not for moral reasons (I'm a scumbag, too <G>)

Having gone to the meeting... if the time is running over, he should discreetly contact his transportation and inform them or any others that he will be delayed. He should continue through the meeting and make alternative arrangements to get home from the office or the meeting. He should not make a scene... it's important that he portray the company in its best image. The time issue can be dealt with later.

 

[JStephen]

"My scenario implied that the activities in which Client Z engages are lawful and legal."

I assumed that was the intent of the description. If in fact your ideas of what is right and wrong are governed entirely by what is legal or illegal, than that covers it. But keep in mind that in the big picture, the laws are written to reflect generally what the populace as a whole feels is right or wrong- the laws are guided by people's opinions, not the other way around. So there will always be people with differing perceptions in one direction or another.

In the particular example described, the printing of the pornography may or may not be legal- depending on the location and the nature of it. If I'm not mistaken, even in Europe, they have limitations on what is acceptable and what is not. And seems like I recall Larry Flynt having lots and lots of legal problems through the years- so I wouldn't assume that whatever he's doing at the moment is necessarily legal.

 

[TheTick]

Nice discussion. Glad to see there is little confusion between ethics and morality here. I can't stand it when people mix up ethics, morals, and "I feel" whinery.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

Thanks for playing, everyone!

 

[EddyC]

Engineer X works for Firm A, not Client Z. That is what his paycheck & labor department records indicate. Too many companies expect partner-like behavior from salaried employees.

 

[dik]

EddyC... not partnerlike, but professional... you should be projecting yourself as well as your firm. I've worked with a couple of outfits where only the partners take in meetings... real pain!

Dik

 

[DaveVikingPE]

What's the difference between "partnerlike" and "professional"? I think I understand it, but this sounds interesting.

 

[MikeHalloran]

This is from a current job ad for a mechanical engineer:

"... Candidate MUST meet attendance and punctuality requirements ..."

Apparently the (unknown) employer has a chronic problem ... not tardiness and absenteeism, but something else that causes those behaviors to be expressed. Just like our Firm A, apparently.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA