Accepting counter offer 8

[ukengineer58]

Hi basically I have been offered a job usual story current employer when I said I was leaving matched the offer. Some more details;
New job is smaller company so less fringe benefits
Its more responsibility which is what I want.
If my employer had been paying me this amount to start with I probably wouldn't have looked around.
I know very little about the new company except what I saw at interview
There are only three qualified engineers there
I am generally happy at my existing place but tying to drive my career forward and see if I could get also more money.
Existing is heavily into bim but the new being smaller hasn't really touched I as yet.
New is further away from home so will cost me more in travel to work in money and time.
I have verbally accepted. But not in writing.
If this had happened before I verbally accepted I may still have gone. I truly do not know what I want to do and hard a hard time Accepting first time.
Could I in any way pull out now anyway? I feel I can't even if that becomes my preferred option.
Any thought are welcome.

 

[ajack1]

You are still free to do what you want as nothing is in writing. Personally my word is my bond in both business and my personal life, I always try to treat others as I would have them treat me and I don’t like being lied to. How you treat others is up to you, but expect to be judged by it and it may come back to bite you one day.

In my experience money alone does not make you happy and in a few weeks/ months whatever else was annoying you at your current job will probably start doing so again, but it does seem like you almost used the second company to get more money out of your current employer rather than actually really wanting the job.

I think you need to sit down and work out what it is you really want and what is the best way to get there.

 

[zdas04]

Acceptance is acceptance. In writing. Verbal. It really doesn't matter. This happened to me a couple of times and it really pissed me off. Both times I kept the resume's after they didn't take the job. One of the children applied for a different job a few years later and I made certain that we strung him along as long as humanly possible and then rejected him--petty? You bet it was, and it felt really good.

Companies may be legal entities without feelings or memory, but they are made up of people who have all sorts of feelings and pretty good memories for the most part. You are going to do what you want, but remember that grown-ups get to live with the consequences of their decisions.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
The plural of anecdote is not "data"

 

[ukengineer58]

That's what I'm thinking to be honest although I obviously have a duty to my family also.
And I did not use it to get a counter offer. I was going to discuss my concerns in jan but this job posting came up and I went along not thinking I would get it but more out of interest. The existing job is def more family friendly for me. But one of the positives of more money for my family has been removed and now I'd be financially better off staying.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Had you not already accepted, I would have counseled you to decline any counter offer.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[rowingengineer]

Sounds to me like your confused about what decisions to make now you have the "money" from both companies. Man up and do the right thing and you know what this is, stop looking for excuses. Verbal is as good as written, this make no difference, it is just that early withdrawal from an employment contract is very rarely penalized, However I know some companies are putting in cost recovery clauses just for situations like this.

http://www.nceng.com.au/

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

Which company is more likely to increase your salary in the future ... without having to resort to "threaten" to leave for a better offer?

 

[ukengineer58]

I have taken the job and rejected the counter offer. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[ornerynorsk]

Having a personal standard and holding to it is sometimes temporarily painful, but will rarely be regretted in the long term.

Best luck to you!

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[berkshire]

ukengineer58 (Civil/Environmental)
I think that is the better plan. Counter offers usually give a company time to work on getting rid of you, at their convenience. You have already demonstrated that you will leave anyway, if the opportunity presents itself.
Good luck in your new job.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[TomDOT]

As mentioned earlier, taking a counter-offer is typically a bad idea.

However, once you have been in the new job a couple of years - there's nothing wrong with going back to the first company (though I would expect a further salary bump to do so.)

 

[zelgar]

Based upon the information you provided, it sounds like staying at your current place of business is the best choice. There appear to be a lot of additional costs associated with the new job (e.g., fringe benefits, additional travel time, unknown issues).

Unfortunately, you have accepted the offer for the new job verbally before getting the counter-offer, thus your conumdrum. If you hadn't accepted the offer, I think you'd have more options. Probably your best hope is to leave your current job on the best of terms, in case the new job fails.

 

[FACS]

You decided you wanted a new job so you looked for one.
You decided to go on an interview, to get this new job.
You decided to accept a new job
You decided to tell your current employer that you accepted a new job.

Why do you think you need to make another decision?
The decisions have already been made.

Charlie

http://www.facsco.com

 

[ukengineer58]

Thamks for all the advice guys. Engs tips to the rescue again. Only comment i will make is i am shocked at how personnel some people take a business decision. Zdas i have to say you sound very bitter about a simple decision that someone is entitled to take, in fact without knowing you id be as bold to say he had a lucky escape not working for you if you'd blackball his kids years later.
I think it works different in US than uk where you need good cause to sack someone, i.e. position is made redundant or gross misconduct. You cannot in a years time take revenge and march them out he door and replace them. That would be unlawful.

 

[zdas04]

Not bitter at all. I just feel very strongly that honesty is important, and you if demonstrate you are unwilling to honor your word once then I really can't see any reason to EVER give you a second chance to lie to me. I've never had a dishonest person working for me (i.e., everyone who ever worked for me lived up to the commitments that they made freely). I don't know what I would have done to someone who didn't live up to those simple expectations. I really believe that an Engineer without integrity is a waste of air.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
The plural of anecdote is not "data"

 

[ukengineer58]

Yet you wouldn't seem to consider it dishonest to, in your words string his Children along. An interesting contradiction. If you lived so strongly by your values surely you could have rejected them straight off or been honest with them about why you won't consider them.
Maybe even his children also would have thought he was out of line. Either way seems honesty only works one way for you.

 

[ornerynorsk]

"an Engineer without integrity is a waste of air".

Pretty much nails it for any profession. Personal life, too. Naked you came, naked you'll go, money and possessions are a temporary salve, all we have is our word.

One of my favorite quotes:
Watch your thoughts, for they become words. Watch your words, for they become actions. Watch your actions, for they become habits. Watch your habits, for they become character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.

-Author Unknown

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[zdas04]

ukengineer58,
WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Did you tell a prospective employer that you would take a job and then lie to your children? Shame on you. Did you tell your children that you wouldn't take the job and then tell the prospective employer that you would? Shame on you.

The time to "consider his children" was BEFORE accepting the offer. Not after.

When I found myself in a position where I couldn't tell my children the truth (e.g., "What did you get me for Christmas, daddy?") I told them nothing (e.g., "that is not a subject I'm willing to discuss with you"). That kind of eliminates the ethical problem that you are implying.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

Law is the common force organized to act as an obstacle of injustice Frédéric Bastiat

 

[1gibson]

Pretty sure there is a misunderstanding about the "children" comment. Zdas did not take anything out on the applicant's children, the applicant may not even have children. He is calling the applicant a child, as in not an adult, and that same "child" applied again with results as described. Sounded fair to me. Fair doesn't quite cover it, try justice (or karma if you believe in it.)

P.S. if breaking your word after accepting a job offer is nothing more than a business decision, then selling your soul for wealth is just a good financial decision.

 

[KENAT]

What 1gibson says, Zdas initial post was a little unclear, but he was basically saying that the applicant changing their mind about accepting the position was not an adult thing to do.

Not sure if it's the old line about 2 countries divided by a common language or not though.

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