Adherance to Ethics 7

[Thane]

To what level does the company you currently work for and/or companies you have worked for in the past adhere to their stated ethical standards?

I have found that the two companies I have worked for adhere to their ethics only when it is convenient and relatively painless. One company was a very large coporation (over 5,000 employees) and the other company is a small corporation (under 120 employees). Management talks about ethics a lot and tell you how important ethics are; however, when push comes to shove and the ethical decision would cause a slip in schedule or lost revenue, a convenient explanation is created to rationalize how the unethical decision is actually ethical and thus is OK.

 

[Theophilus]

If a company has "stated" ethical standards, for whom are those standards on display? This often reveals the motivation for having such a statement--and perhaps even for having a code at all.

"Treat others as you want to be treated."
Basic, but it works for everyone, and we try to hold to it at all times.


Jeff Mowry

http://www.industrialdesignhaus.com

Reality is no respecter of good intentions.

 

[EddyC]

Thane,

My current employer is exactly as you described above. My previous employer was halfway to your description and so was the one before that. A retired engineer that I know said: "When engineers speak of professionalism & ethics, its all lip service." He was a Mister Rodgers kind of a guy, the kind to see nothing but good in the world. And he worked for a well thought of employer. If this is his opinion, then think about what it means.

 

[UcfSE]

Current employer is ethical as long as his ass is on the line, as in big project lots of liability, to a point mind you. If it's low liability such as residential where the chances of a law suit are low, then ethical is ok as long as it doesn't affect the bottom line. If the client wants something that doesn't work they can get it if need be, or if they might go somewhere else if they don't get it.

First employer had no ethics whatsoever.

 

[BJC]

Lots of big companies have published ethics. Enron for one.

 

[MikeHalloran]

The "situational ethics" tap dance is so commonplace that I have come to believe they must actually teach it in MBA school.

No offense intended to actual ethical MBAs ...

... both of you.




Mike Halloran
NOT speaking for
DeAngelo Marine Exhaust Inc.
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA

 

[HVAC68]

Publishing is probably a lot more easier than adherence !!!

HVAC68

 

[epoisses]

Thane, trust me....... they are all like that. It simply makes economic sense for companies to operate at the limits of safety rules, ethical standards, and legal requirements. That is the very reason for existance of these limits, we would not need them otherwise. And from time to time a limit is crossed, of course...

To take that impression away as much as possible from the general public, bold statements are made very frequently. I noticed that the louder the statement, the more likely it is untrue.

If this goes against your beliefs, don't believe that fighting the windmills will do you any good. Pull out and look for something completely different like a volunteer job.

This realistic, somewhat cynical view replaced optimistic and naive idea I used to have a few years ago.

 

[Ron]

MikeHalloran has nailed it!

Ethical behavior is a moving target. Companies, because they are composed of people, can only reflect the ideals of the leading people. If a particular philosophy is practiced and shown by the leadership, good or bad, it will be reflected throughout. Just as there are bad apples in the good batches, there are good apples in the bad batches. Your best bet for ethical consistency is to know what's right yourself and practice it, without regard to what anyone else does.

 

[DrillerNic]

Well, my last company followed it's ethics as much as their clients would let them- for example treating the Water Based Mud drilling cuttings & mud effluent when we weren't required to by law, and other companies weren't doing the same thing on a lump sum job (ie this increased our costs, which weren't easily passed on the the client) and then on the next well in the campaign being forced to use Oil Based Mud because the (new) client had some spare and didn't want to buy new Water Based Mud... I've got other examples; in fact, it's often the big oil service cos and the major oil cos who bring the higher North Sea type HSE standards to places like West Africa.

My current company is pretty ethical too- we've substituted some chemicals for greener versions before we were required to by the DTi, there's a real commitment to safety from all the senior guys on the project (although the company MD is a bit of an old fashioned driller in his attitudes!). However with $45 oil maybe they can afford to be ethical and the proof of the pudding will be when oil hits $15/bbl again?

 

[PSE]

I have seen ethical standard in place for employees, but I have yet to see an ethical standard for corporate conduct. As both MikeHalloran and epoisses point out, "corporations" work in a world of shifting rules and likely take every advantage of the grey areas in legalities for the sake of profitability and competitive advantage.

I do remember for a time back in the earlier '80s a statement being popular that was similar to Theophilus' quote. "Do unto others, just don't get caught". Perhaps taken to heart by some of today's CEOs.

Regards

 

[plasgears]

Published ethics rules are good eyewash to trot out during Q reviews. And it can be exhibited during trial, but is it relavent to everyday business?

When civil law was generally a reflection of biblical teaching, we knew where the standards came from, and even when civil law did not speak on certain situations, there was the 'old standard' to fall back on.

 

[jsummerfield]

So, just exactly when was civil law generally a reflection of biblical teaching?

John

 

[buzzp]

I made a t-shirt a while back that sums up the corporate world (similar to whats already been posted):
"Do unto others, Then split"

 

[DrillerNic]

In the UK, the Health & Safety and Work act makes it a criminal offence to harm the health of your employees, visitors and other 'interested parties' (ie neighbours). People have gone to jail, been fined heavily and been disqualified as directors. I know someone who was read his rights half way through an accident investigation interview with the HSE Inspector!

 

[buzzp]

The US has similar agencies, OSHA, but unethical behaviour does not necessarily mean some one was harmed, physically.

 

[PSE]

Ethical conduct of employer to employee has been framed with case law. Product liability has formed the basis of the ground rules for a company/customer relationship. Corporation to corporation to me seems the most tenuous as they are truly in outright competition with each other (civil appearances or not)

Like plasgears, I believe that a cultures ethical standards arise from its fundamental belief system. Only in this day and age of (for lack of a better term), a mobile culture, what we have personally long held as a "standard" belief may no longer be so. It seems an evolutionary process, but one not without "growing pains".

Regards,

 

[epoisses]

"In the UK, the Health & Safety and Work act makes it a criminal offence to harm the health of your employees, visitors and other 'interested parties' (ie neighbours)."
...Such uncomfortable restrictions are easily circumvented with a "hold harmless clause" in every contract! And I wouldn't be surprised if a little sign at the plant entrance makes you agree with it automatically as you enter.

It's harder than you might think for governments to keep big evil companies on the straight and narrow path.

 

[GregLocock]

"...Such uncomfortable restrictions are easily circumvented with a "hold harmless clause" in every contract! And I wouldn't be surprised if a little sign at the plant entrance makes you agree with it automatically as you enter. "

Rubbish (in context). How stupid do you think the OHS bureaucrats are? In the UK and Australia (at least) you can pin as many signs up as you like, the fact is the company WILL be investigated for each serious injury, and the directors or other responsible managers face jail time or heavy fines if the company is found to be at fault. Maybe the fines are not heavy enough, but that is a separate issue.

Equally the employees have a duty of care and will face similar penalties if their behaviour causes accidents.


Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[jheidt2543]

PSE's comment: "I have seen ethical standard in place for employees, but I have yet to see an ethical standard for corporate conduct."

Who (or what) is the corporation? The corporation is the composite of it's leaders and employees, so I think Ron nailed it when he said: " Your best bet for ethical consistency is to know what's right yourself and practice it, without regard to what anyone else does."

The ethical corporation is made up of ethical leaders and employees. Now, how often that happens may have more to say about our society than it does about corporations.