All Around Surface Finish Symbol 1

[coolcad]

In SolidWorks they give us an option for finish symbol with an "all around" modifier. Yet the shop has never seen this before and the ASME/ANSI Y14.36M does not show it. I really like the symbol because I can point to an edge of a feature with it and this tells the machinist that the entire profile of the feature must have this finish. The all around symbol is used in welding and GD&T callouts.

See the attached picture. The first symbol is what SolidWorks gives us. The second is my interpretation of an optional symbol, more in line with the weld callout.

Has anyone ever seen the first example, with the finish symbol with the circle on the tail? What standard uses this? Is this "legal" to use on a drawing?

Thanks.

Glenn Wilkins, CSWP
Hazelett Strip-Casting Corp.
Colchester, VT

 

[dingy2]

The second example is used for profiles and complies with ASME Y14.5M-94.

Dave D.

http://www.qmsi.ca

 

[CheckerRon]

This sounds like someone's bright idea, but as you said, it is not in ASME B46.1 or Y14.36, so I would not use it.

Where I work now, they use the all around symbol on radii callouts (which go around corners), justifying it by the fact that the word "profile" was deleted from paragraph 3.3.18 of ASME Y14.5M in the 1994 edition.

It still is only referenced for profile, as far as I see it, but I am told that I am too narrow and literal in my interpretation.

 

[CheckerRon]

P.S. One of my pet peeves: Because something CAN be done in a CAD program doesn't mean that it should be. That is what standards are for.

 

[coolcad]

"I am told that I am too narrow and literal in my interpretation."

Hence the name "CheckerRon"!!

Excellent information gentlemen. I'm guessing SolidWorks has a very large customer who has an internal standard for this symbol and they "strongly suggested" that SW add it to the drafting symbols "or else".

Thanks!

Glenn Wilkins, CSWP,CSWP-SMTL
Hazelett Strip-Casting Corp.
Colchester, VT

 

[CheckerRon]

glennwi:
This is true about old checkers like me, but since I am a job shopper, if the company says "this is the way we do it" and I can't disprove it by a spec. or standard I say "OK BOSS" and yellow it out.
Doesn't mean I can't use a better way in the stuff I generate.

 

[KENAT]

glenwi, CAD systems indeed pander to the requests of customers. If enough customers ask for a feature, even if it's not in iso/asme standards they will get it. A classic example is sections of sections. Also most of the developers don't have a clue about drawing standards anyway, just like most CAD trainers.

I've been at user events/conferences during round tables with the CAD developers where people were asking for all kinds of stuff that contravenes various drawings standards.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[ctopher]

Standards??
I thought they were thrown out with good manners, proper etiquette, and any IQ over 50.


I agree with the others.
Follow the ASME standards and have the company trained to use them.
Software is not created by users, they are created by engineering wannabees. The do not know the standards or have the design knowledge of how they 'should' work.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[fcsuper]

It should be noted that the Standards themselves cater to their custom base as well. Anyone can provide input as to what should be in a standard by writing a letter to that standard's board secretary.

As I stated on another board, ASME makes liberal use of all around symbol. It doesn't just apply to welds.

Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group

 

[aardvarkdw]

I always find it amusing when CAD systems make use of a perfectly legal and correct symbol/callout/annotation but use it incorrectly or in the wrong application and then fail to use it in it's correct application... Those silly software designers, they think they are so funny...

David

 

[fcsuper]

Aard, The problem is software engineers who don't understand the fields for which they create programs.

Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group

 

[ctopher]

Glenn,
Just for clarity, it's not a 'finish' symbol...it's a surface 'roughness'.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[coolcad]

Actually, ASME Y14.36M-1996 says "Surface Texture Symbols" but I know what you mean.

Thanks.

Glenn Wilkins, CSWP,CSWP-SMTL
Hazelett Strip-Casting Corp.
Colchester, VT

 

[fcsuper]

I've also seen the term "Surface finish" and I am prolly wrong, but I remember seeing that in the standards as the name of the symbol.

Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group