Am I *allowed* to change drawing? 2

[baazar]

At my office we design/engineer/model products. For products of greater difficulty we outsource to a mechanical engineering firm. They created all of our drawings for one of our products at a premium cost. I found a red-line dimension that needs to be changed. What I did was update the dimension in the DWG file and updated the revision number. The drawing and the product are our property, but it still has the ME firm's title block. If we were to get them to make this small change, the document would look the same as I my version. Am I wrong in making this change without the services of that firm or since it's our property can we manipulate it as we see fit?

TIA - Bram

 

[ewh]

Did you also update the model?

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[baazar]

Yes. We have both the drawing and the model. It's not a matter of the capability. It's whether I'm allowed to change a drawing that has their information (Company name, logo, drawnby etc.) or should I recreate it with our own information (a *much* longer process).

 

[TheTick]

Sounds like you own the file. No worries.

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

As long as the drawing doesn't carry an official engineers stamp, there should be no problem.

Are you adding a revision, or note documenting the change?

 

[baazar]

No stamp. Just changing a dimension and indicating it in the change-log box (upper right-hand corner).

 

[ewh]

Like Tick says, if you own the package, no worries.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[kelowna]

Not so sure myself.

Turning the argument around , I would not be very happy if a drawing I produced and that had my company's title block was modified by another company and re-issued without me being aware of it.

What initials/name are on the originator's box? Yours or the original designer's?

 

[baazar]

Originator's initials in the drawnby box. Our lead engineer's in the revisions field. Our guys' initials is also in a few revisions back when we did the same thing, but paid them to add the small changes.

 

[ewh]

If that drawing was created by you with the full knowledge that the drawing and intellectual property was owned by the customer, and no stamps were required, then there is no reason to hold the customer to using only you when the drawing requires revision. It is no longer your problem or responsibility. It does not matter that the originators name or initials are present.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[ewh]

I would be upset if I had created the drawing and the customer made a change without noting the revision or revisor.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[TheTick]

ewh has a good point. I've had drawings that were passed along, butchered, and had no attribution for the butchery, leaving it to appear as if it were my own hacksmanship.

 

[baazar]

For significant changes I'd completely agree. But for changing a "4" to a "8," I'm not sure it merits the cost at this time.

 

[vpl]

Starting off, I work in the nuclear field, where we tend to get anal about such things.

What I have seen done is the addition of a new box with the company's name, the the intials of the person revising it. Being nuclear, there would also be a reviewer's and an approver's initials. There also would be a short description of the change.

I realize that for other industries, this might be a bit of an overkill.

Patricia Lougheed

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[ivymike]

for industrial engines, we'd have insisted that the outside company produce the drawings on our title block in the first place. All engineering notices, etc., would have been released in our data systems.

For the revisions, standard revision control would apply, with checking/design reviews/engineering notices and documented reason for change/etc. No need to call the outside company, unless we wanted them to make the change (and perhaps to back-charge them if it was an error of theirs we were correcting).

I wouldn't have called it anal - the product will be in use longer than I'll be in engineering - someone is going to have to figure out the reasons behind some of this stuff after I retire.

 

[PetieSmo]

baazar,

Sounds like it is legally within the rights of you and your company to make this change, provided that you are not relying upon an official PE Stamp from the contracting firm (as others have mentioned). Somewhere (probably in the change-log box) you should note your name & your company name associated with this specific change.

Since Revision A is released (and hopefully, archived), you might even be able to put your name in the DrawnBy box for Rev B. On a side-by-side comparison of the two drawings, this would show the distinction between the originator's work and the revisions you have made.

Does your company have a policy/standard for what to do in this scenario? Documents like Change Orders (COs) can add clarity to a process like this, but only if this system/process is already in place.

Good luck
Peter

 

[baazar]

We're very small. In fact the entire reason we recently purchased a CAD system was specifically so we wouldn't have to use the outside firm so much.

Another thing:
Lets say there was a PE stamp. Could I simply re-create the drawing with our own drawing template from the STEP file we were given?

 

[mfgenggear]

Ditto to preveous suggestions.

as long as the changes are documented by the the rvising engineer & the initials are documented on the revision block.

 

[PeterStock]

If I was the contracting firm, I would insist on any changes made by the client be made on the clients format, not mine. I would also require the client to take design authority. Your changing the drawing without the consent or knowledge of the company who's name is on the drawing is a problem for me. (I agree that the design should have been on your format from the start.) Think about it would you want the contractor changing one of your drawings without your knowledge? At the very least you should inform the contractor that you have made the change and place a block on the drawing stating that your company is taking control of the document.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

http://www.infotechpr.net

 

[mfgenggear]

Peter

since there is no PE Stamp then is it not the product responcibility the OP company ?

if so, there should not be any issues.