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A 164 unit condominium building in Miami Beach was evacuated this morning after a structural engineering review highlighted some severe problems! Miami Beach condos evacuated
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Another Miami Beach condominium with structural problems 9
- Thread starter Mark R
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EdStainless
Materials
I wonder how many buildings have undergone emergency repairs to avoid this fate?
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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
- Thread starter
- #4
EdStainless
Materials
Or what the backlog for an inspection is right now?
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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
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EdStainless
Materials
50yr is a major benchmark. I don't recall the actual inspection schedule, but it is more frequent than that.
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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
Swashbucking politicians and lawyer/scum to the rescue !!!!.... YAYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!
... are you a Broward County lawyer or Real Estate professional ??? ... You can make your guess too !!!!!
....and my personal opinion is..... First building inspection for structures within 3 miles of the coast at 15 years then every 5 years after that !!!
What is your guess ?..... How would you handle this thorny issue ?..... America's property millionaires await your answer !!!
MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer
... are you a Broward County lawyer or Real Estate professional ??? ... You can make your guess too !!!!!
....and my personal opinion is..... First building inspection for structures within 3 miles of the coast at 15 years then every 5 years after that !!!
What is your guess ?..... How would you handle this thorny issue ?..... America's property millionaires await your answer !!!
MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer
Given the Champlain Towers owners already had an inspection and an engineers report that used words like exponential deterioration I think the problem is less the inspection schedule and more the need for enforcement and for reserved funds to take action. The inspection did not condemn the building outright and demand evacuation, but how many would have?
![[evil]](/data/assets/smilies/evil.gif "[evil] [evil]")
More info ....
Mercado’s engineers, who are doing The Port Royale’s 50-year recertification, said they had discovered a growing crack and deflection in a main beam in the building’s garage, meaning the beam was bending or moving away from its intended position.
“We believe this beam and the other beams located in the third-floor garage might support the entire building structure,” an inspector and an engineer for Inspection Engineers Inc. wrote in a letter to the city dated Thursday, though they said that was based on observation because they don’t have the building’s original structural calculations.
You know,.... both the structural engineers and the graph paper that /beam calculations are done on, tend to crumble and wrinkle-up after 50 years
MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer
Mercado’s engineers, who are doing The Port Royale’s 50-year recertification, said they had discovered a growing crack and deflection in a main beam in the building’s garage, meaning the beam was bending or moving away from its intended position.
“We believe this beam and the other beams located in the third-floor garage might support the entire building structure,” an inspector and an engineer for Inspection Engineers Inc. wrote in a letter to the city dated Thursday, though they said that was based on observation because they don’t have the building’s original structural calculations.
You know,.... both the structural engineers and the graph paper that /beam calculations are done on, tend to crumble and wrinkle-up after 50 years
MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer
I'm sure all that stuff is on file with the building department. The point of having records is to KEEP records. For later.
That's why building permit fees are so high--because of the cost of properly storing these records.
The permit fees for CTS were $45,000. Much of that fee undoubtedly went to organizing and storing the records. Same should hold for this building.
Anyway, it is interesting when it's announced that a crack has been almost visibly growing in a concrete structure. Surely a "cause for alarm", as Emily Guglielmo might phrase it.
spsalso
That's why building permit fees are so high--because of the cost of properly storing these records.
The permit fees for CTS were $45,000. Much of that fee undoubtedly went to organizing and storing the records. Same should hold for this building.
Anyway, it is interesting when it's announced that a crack has been almost visibly growing in a concrete structure. Surely a "cause for alarm", as Emily Guglielmo might phrase it.
spsalso
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You state:
"I'm sure all that stuff is on file with the building department. The point of having records is to KEEP records. For later."
Well, I kinda doubt that copies of (50 year old) structural calculations (and the assumptions therein) are retained by the building department.
I have never heard of calculation retention .... Lots of long term liabilty there !!!
PE stamped drawings, single lines, specs etc .... Yes, yes... of course !!
I would like to hear from experienced geezer Structural Engineers !!
Are your strength calculations for masonry buildings retained by building departments ?
What is your experience for review of your work decades after the structure goes up ?
Anyone??....?????
MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer
"I'm sure all that stuff is on file with the building department. The point of having records is to KEEP records. For later."
Well, I kinda doubt that copies of (50 year old) structural calculations (and the assumptions therein) are retained by the building department.
I have never heard of calculation retention .... Lots of long term liabilty there !!!
PE stamped drawings, single lines, specs etc .... Yes, yes... of course !!
I would like to hear from experienced geezer Structural Engineers !!
Are your strength calculations for masonry buildings retained by building departments ?
What is your experience for review of your work decades after the structure goes up ?
Anyone??....?????
MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer
Cool_Controls
Electrical
Many jurisdictions dont require calculations to be submitted, I would expect even fewer did 50 years ago.
The building codes were different 50 years ago, the concrete used for buildings generally had less strength than what is used now, the quality control was less, and on and on. Add to that the environmental conditions that the concrete is exposed to.
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I agree but because of the known weaknesses and the lack of sophisticated calculating systems many times they used huge overkill's of materials to ensure adequate strength. Much different compared to today's world where we calculate to the nth degree and have slim margins so corners are shaped real thin due to budget constraints.bimr said:
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