Anvil Product 3

[WARose]

Hi, I am trying to specify some pipe hold down hardware and it has to be Anvil. Looking in the catalog linked to below (see p.67)....that looks like a good product. Only problem is: these don't have the side load capacity I need. (They've got about 2/3rds of the capacity I need.) I'm not very familiar with Anvil's products.....can anyone recommend a alternative?

https://s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/...pe-Hangers-Supports-Submittal-Catalog-v01.pdf

 

[HTURKAK]

Hi WAROSE,

Did you check for Fig. 137S*: Special U-bolt (non-standard) ?

Page 67 note :

*When the combination of a normal load and a side load occurs, a straight line interaction formula may be used to determine if the Fig. 137 is still within the allowable stress range:
Pn/Pna + Ps/Psa ≤ 1

Where:
Pn = actual applied normal load;
Pna = allowable normal load for the Fig. 137;
Ps = actual applied side load;
Psa = allowable side load for the Fig. 137

If you need more help, pls provide pipe dia, normal and side loads..


Tim was so learned that he could name a
horse in nine languages: so ignorant that he bought a cow to ride on.
(BENJAMIN FRANKLIN )

 

[MJCronin]

... or you could use two u-bolts, side by side for your calculated loading condition ..

Oh, wait.... your client or your boss or the janitor .... or somebody you met at a bar,... told you that was un acceptable

... or you could take a hollow square steel tube and have it bent to suit and welded into place

Then perform your own strength calcultions

Oh, wait ... it has be from ANVIL ... and it has to be painted blue, ... and it has to come in a white box, right ??

This isn't a post from yet another confused third-world fresher, is it ?


MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

 

[LittleInch]

What "side load capacity"?

U bolts are not the best fit any application that has any significant loads as you get high point loads.

I'm struggling to understand what these side loads are and whether they come from.

Drawing diagram or picture would help.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[WARose]

Hi WAROSE,

Did you check for Fig. 137S*: Special U-bolt (non-standard) ?

Page 67 note :

*When the combination of a normal load and a side load occurs, a straight line interaction formula may be used to determine if the Fig. 137 is still within the allowable stress range:
Pn/Pna + Ps/Psa ≤ 1

Where:
Pn = actual applied normal load;
Pna = allowable normal load for the Fig. 137;
Ps = actual applied side load;
Psa = allowable side load for the Fig. 137

If you need more help, pls provide pipe dia, normal and side loads..

Well yeah....it doesn't make it without going into that interaction formula. And to answer your question it's a 14" line with a vertical load of 719 lbs and a side load (perpendicular to the pipe wall) of 3359 lbs. The allowable side load is much less than that.

 

[WARose]

What "side load capacity"?

U bolts are not the best fit any application that has any significant loads as you get high point loads.

I'm struggling to understand what these side loads are and whether they come from.

Drawing diagram or picture would help.

They come from the guy running a pipe stress program. He's got it vertically and laterally restrained (but not longitudinally, i.e. in the direction of flow) for the supports I am working on.

 

[LittleInch]

U bolts are not your answer to such a system and those numbers are crazy.

1.5 tonnes lateral force on a single support???

Get a piping designer who understands what he's doing is the answer.

U bolts are OK for small bore piping with no thermal or other forces. They are terrible at everything else IMHO. You need more flexibility to reduce those forces, not bigger U bolts.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[WARose]

Get a piping designer who understands what he's doing is the answer.

U bolts are OK for small bore piping with no thermal or other forces. They are terrible at everything else IMHO. You need more flexibility to reduce those forces, not bigger U bolts.

Getting another piper isn't a option. And I don't think those forces are thermal. They appear to be seismic. (This is a very high seismic area and the owner is requiring a elastic design.)

Any commentary outside of the Anvil catalog isn't what I need. If someone spots some hardware in there that will make these loads....great....if not: please: no comments.

If I can't find anything in the catalog soon, I will just have to box it in with welded members.

 

[LittleInch]

Pages 148 to 153.

U bolts are only of any use to clamp pipes to things. They are useless at anything that needs to move in an axial or anything else direction.

But why is the piping designer not specifying these and just giving you the loads?

An elastic design that fixes the pipe in two directions doesn't sound like the same thing?

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[HTURKAK]

Dear WAROSE,

The U bolts are typical for diameter less than 8 in. In your case, I will suggest you three options:

- Use welded guides at both sides of the pipe ( typical , angle or tee section)

- The use of double U bolts ( in this case fig 137 , pipe 14 in, rod size 7/8 in)

- The use of Fig. 137S*: Special U-bolt (non-standard), ( in this case Fig. 137S*, A 36, 14 in, 1 in,14 1/8,15 ...)



Tim was so learned that he could name a
horse in nine languages: so ignorant that he bought a cow to ride on.
(BENJAMIN FRANKLIN )

 

[1503-44]

4" diameter is my limit for ubolts. And with no lateral load.

Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[WARose]

U bolts are only of any use to clamp pipes to things. They are useless at anything that needs to move in an axial or anything else direction.

If true....than why does Anvil give a side load capacity for these?

 

[LittleInch]

If you support a horizontal pipe of a vertical surface then you will have a high side load.

If you need any degrees of movement then u bolts are not the best.

Fitters are not used to allowing them to be free and just clamp them down. Plus they bend and bind the pipe.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[WARose]

And by the way....

Get a piping designer who understands what he's doing is the answer.
......
But why is the piping designer not specifying these....

Trust me when I tell you I was asking these same questions to the people I am working with (only with more salty language ).

 

[Texas Piper]

@ WARose,

Check Anvil Fig. 439. This might be an option for you.

Edit: You will probably want to use "Type 3".

 

[WARose]

Thanks Texas. Don't know if that will fly or not.....but I'll run it by everyone.

 

[LittleInch]

I agree as noted before (it's on P 153...)

That's the way piping engineers do it if all you want is axial movement.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Texas Piper]

@ LittleInch

Didn't see your recommendation, you get the credit

 

[LittleInch]

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[WARose]

Gave Little Inch a star as well.