Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations cowski on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
Api 650 code or standard? 7
- Thread starter shakila21
- Start date
LittleInch
Petroleum
It's A STANDARD
That's what it says on the front cover.....
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
That's what it says on the front cover.....
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
- Thread starter
- #3
-
2
- #4
It might help to indicate what the issue actually is.
"Code" and "standard" are often tossed about interchangeably.
But generally, "code" refers to something that is legally mandated, such as building codes, boiler and vessel codes, where some government entity requires their use.
And API-650 is not usually mandated in that sense.
"Code" and "standard" are often tossed about interchangeably.
But generally, "code" refers to something that is legally mandated, such as building codes, boiler and vessel codes, where some government entity requires their use.
And API-650 is not usually mandated in that sense.
LittleInch
Petroleum
Well this is what is says on the front cover....
And in section 1 - scope etc all sections start "This standard....."
TBF ASME reference their documents as "Codes"
They usually get lumped together as "Codes and Standards" in any listing.
Confusingly in the intro to B31 "codes" it then says "The ASME B31 Code for Pressure Piping consists of a number of individually published
Sections, each an American National Standard. So e.g. B 31.4 is both a "code" and a "standard"
Why do you think API 650 is a "design code" and why do you care?
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
And in section 1 - scope etc all sections start "This standard....."
TBF ASME reference their documents as "Codes"
They usually get lumped together as "Codes and Standards" in any listing.
Confusingly in the intro to B31 "codes" it then says "The ASME B31 Code for Pressure Piping consists of a number of individually published
Sections, each an American National Standard. So e.g. B 31.4 is both a "code" and a "standard"
Why do you think API 650 is a "design code" and why do you care?
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
- Thread starter
- #6
Dear Jstephan and Dear LittleInche,
thank you for your reponses and attention. recently there is a discussion between me and some friends about Api being a design code or standard. I searched about the difference and found some information like
JStephan why do you think Api650 is not mandatory? Is there any serious conflicts between Api650 and other sources for deigning and building of storage tank like BS EN 14015? if it is not it should be some rules and guidlines to design and build tanks whereas in different standards same topic can be totally differents.this is what I think but I`m not sure. I need a valid reference for it.
LittleInche, as you said the front cover of Api650 refer to it as standard but it also include some tules which is mandatory for design and building storage tanks that`s why I think it should be adesign code. and answering to your other question I care because in some job interview they ask about difference between code and standard...
all in all thanks again for taking time to response.
thank you for your reponses and attention. recently there is a discussion between me and some friends about Api being a design code or standard. I searched about the difference and found some information like
JStephan why do you think Api650 is not mandatory? Is there any serious conflicts between Api650 and other sources for deigning and building of storage tank like BS EN 14015? if it is not it should be some rules and guidlines to design and build tanks whereas in different standards same topic can be totally differents.this is what I think but I`m not sure. I need a valid reference for it.
LittleInche, as you said the front cover of Api650 refer to it as standard but it also include some tules which is mandatory for design and building storage tanks that`s why I think it should be adesign code. and answering to your other question I care because in some job interview they ask about difference between code and standard...
all in all thanks again for taking time to response.
-
2
- #7
LittleInch
Petroleum
Yes there are rules to follow IF you want the end design to be in compliance with the Standard. That doesn't make it a code.
The two are very similar and interchangeable - like I showed above ASME B 31.4 for example is both a design code and also an American standard. So they can be both at the same time. Tell them that the next time they ask... Look in the introduction of section of B32.4 for your reference.
API 650 is not "mandatory" as in you MUST build ALL vertical cylindrical atmospheric storage tanks to API 650, unless the legislation in the country you are building this says so. It is a defacto standard in the oil industry for large tanks, but many similar smaller tanks are built to other design standards and many not built to any standard at all, especially smaller tanks.
Legislation trumps everything, but is not universal around the world. That's why you need to know what the legislation is first and foremost. Then if allowed you can choose your design code and your standards. Many countries are not prescriptive about what you need to use and just require you to use something which is recognised and creates a low risk design.
I don't believe there is a hard and fast definition of when some document becomes a "code" and when it is a "standard", but in general a design "code" tends to have more about how to design something and has guidance in many parts, whereas a "standard" tends to be about how to design and construct a particular "thing", like a tank or a meter or a pump. API in particular seem to use "standard" to define their documents, but ASME uses "Code" a lot more, but still uses "standard" to define how components such as flanges are designed and manufactured.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
The two are very similar and interchangeable - like I showed above ASME B 31.4 for example is both a design code and also an American standard. So they can be both at the same time. Tell them that the next time they ask... Look in the introduction of section of B32.4 for your reference.
API 650 is not "mandatory" as in you MUST build ALL vertical cylindrical atmospheric storage tanks to API 650, unless the legislation in the country you are building this says so. It is a defacto standard in the oil industry for large tanks, but many similar smaller tanks are built to other design standards and many not built to any standard at all, especially smaller tanks.
Legislation trumps everything, but is not universal around the world. That's why you need to know what the legislation is first and foremost. Then if allowed you can choose your design code and your standards. Many countries are not prescriptive about what you need to use and just require you to use something which is recognised and creates a low risk design.
I don't believe there is a hard and fast definition of when some document becomes a "code" and when it is a "standard", but in general a design "code" tends to have more about how to design something and has guidance in many parts, whereas a "standard" tends to be about how to design and construct a particular "thing", like a tank or a meter or a pump. API in particular seem to use "standard" to define their documents, but ASME uses "Code" a lot more, but still uses "standard" to define how components such as flanges are designed and manufactured.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
- Thread starter
- #8
- Thread starter
- #10
LittleInch
Petroleum
No they don't. That's just an opinion.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
-
2
- #12
HTURKAK
Structural
- Jul 22, 2017
- 3,346
"Code" , "standard" , and "norm" are often used about interchangeably in my time zone .
Definition of code ; (REF Merriam-Webster Dictionary )
1: a systematic statement of a body of law especially : one given statutory force
2: a system of principles or rules moral code
Another definition for construction regulation : ( ref. energy supply and pipeline transp.)
Legal documents that regulate construction to protect the health, safety, and welfare
of people. Codes establish minimum standards but do not guarantee efficiency or quality.
API 650 is standard but API 650 11th ed is also CODE . ( Legally binding doc. and Criminal penalties may apply for noncompliance.) ( ref )
API 653 is standard but API 653 3rd ed is registered as a code ( )
API 12F is a specification but also a code..
ASCE 7 is standard for Minimum Design Loads for Buildings and Other Structure but also code
ASME BPVC, NEC, UBC.. Some of the Hammurabi laws are codes..
But in my time zone, API 650,653, 12F are only standards .
EDIT: The first page of the following doc . shows that API 650 is a CODE , incorporated into government regulations and is legally binding document . the third page defines API 650 is a standard ( released as a standard ..by API )
Definition of code ; (REF Merriam-Webster Dictionary )
1: a systematic statement of a body of law especially : one given statutory force
2: a system of principles or rules moral code
Another definition for construction regulation : ( ref. energy supply and pipeline transp.)
Legal documents that regulate construction to protect the health, safety, and welfare
of people. Codes establish minimum standards but do not guarantee efficiency or quality.
API 650 is standard but API 650 11th ed is also CODE . ( Legally binding doc. and Criminal penalties may apply for noncompliance.) ( ref )
API 653 is standard but API 653 3rd ed is registered as a code ( )
API 12F is a specification but also a code..
ASCE 7 is standard for Minimum Design Loads for Buildings and Other Structure but also code
ASME BPVC, NEC, UBC.. Some of the Hammurabi laws are codes..
But in my time zone, API 650,653, 12F are only standards .
EDIT: The first page of the following doc . shows that API 650 is a CODE , incorporated into government regulations and is legally binding document . the third page defines API 650 is a standard ( released as a standard ..by API )
LittleInch
Petroleum
They are interchangeable in normal usage.
The examples you give though do not convert a standard into a code. They are referenced and incorporated into a Code- the code of federal regulations (CFR) - but that does not turn it into a code. IMHO.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
The examples you give though do not convert a standard into a code. They are referenced and incorporated into a Code- the code of federal regulations (CFR) - but that does not turn it into a code. IMHO.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
-
1
- #14
In my opinion, API 650 is a standard. It is not a regulation or code. I think that a regulation or code MUST be followed and a standard MAY be followed. If you build a tank to this standard and it fails you will be less likely to be prosecuted or have an issue with your insurance carrier because you followed an industry standard. If API 650 was not the proper standard to follow, this error in judgement may be used against you in a court of law. If a building code or other regulation requires you to use a recognized industry standard to build your tank then you do so and you (or the regulation) can choose API 650 as the standard to follow.
TLDR: I consider a code to be a regulation, and a standard to be an accepted method that if followed keeps you out of hot water. API 650 is a standard to follow, it can be required by a code or regulation.
TLDR: I consider a code to be a regulation, and a standard to be an accepted method that if followed keeps you out of hot water. API 650 is a standard to follow, it can be required by a code or regulation.
- Thread starter
- #16
Dear HTURKAK,
thanks a million for going through all trouble to find those references.
Dear LittleInch,
thank you very much for following the thread. I still searching about this topic.
Dear R6155,
thank you for your reply. yes, this is another point of view but as you can find in below links there are some differences between code and standard which makes them different in using.
thanks a million for going through all trouble to find those references.
Dear LittleInch,
thank you very much for following the thread. I still searching about this topic.
Dear R6155,
thank you for your reply. yes, this is another point of view but as you can find in below links there are some differences between code and standard which makes them different in using.
- Status
