I sometimes do residential structural engineering work and have recently got into discussion with this contractor regarding design fee. Some of the time the jobs I work on our small enough where I am the only professional involved preparing the plans (i.e. no architect). I told him I thought architect's charge about 7% of the construction cost for a custom home plans. He was blown away by this number and said I was way off base, am I? Maybe his only experiences are with clients who purchased a set of starter plans and had the design professional bring it up to local codes or had a "designer" draft up the plans and bring them to arch or eng to bring up to code and seal. I base my fees for every job based on an hourly estimate it takes me to do what calculations and/or drawings need to completed. I think he thinks everything should be a flat fee regardless of complexity...like a "small addition prepare plans and seal = $1,500"....this guy is frustrating me. Interested in others thoughts on the 7% on archs fee for custom home plans and what you charge for small residential work? How much do you think location plays into costs...I am in florida.
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Architect/Structural Fee Residential 11
- Thread starter jgeng
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In my locale, a professional engineer's conduct is judged by a disciplinary panel of his peers, not by a judge. The absence of recorded calculations to justify a structural design can and has resulted in a finding of unprofessional conduct followed by suspension of practice.
Admittedly, the outcome could be different in other jurisdictions.
BA
Admittedly, the outcome could be different in other jurisdictions.
BA
I have to write down my calculations, I could not keep track of all the loads on my members without it. Even for a joist I may have lateral loads, anchorage forces, diaphragm forces, and 27 other kinds of load on the thing.
Shoot I have to write them down and usually draw a picture to make sure that there is a proper load path for all my connections, doing a FBD always helps as I can see where the load is going.
Shoot I have to write them down and usually draw a picture to make sure that there is a proper load path for all my connections, doing a FBD always helps as I can see where the load is going.
In some jurisdictions it is important not only to have engineering calculations, but to have them in the order that the building department wants them. A client of mine in Contra Costa County was also doing a project in San Francisco, an apartment building. The engineer for that project was out of town and the city had red-tagged his job because they discovered that the calculations that he had submitted did not include engineering calculations for the balcony railings. He requested me to do them. When I submitted them to the building department the building official said they weren't right. I could see nothing wrong and told him so. He pulled a book off the shelf and showed me how he wanted them. Mine were exactly the same as what the book had, except that I had checked the shear first, then the bending, and finally the deflection. What he wanted was like the book, which checked the bending first, then the shear, and then the deflection. The shear was calculated the same way, the bending was calculated the same way. The deflection was calculated the same way. The only difference was the order. It was cheaper to copy the calculations in the correct order, in about 10 minutes, than to fight the stupidity. This was in the early 1980's.
One of my previous bosses got given a copy of the chinese structural codes. They had a proforma for each type of member showing exactly how the calculations were to be laid out.
There should be some sort of national code in the us on what the local authority is allowed to require regarding building permit submissions. They should not be allowed to tellll you how to do your job.
Though things can be just as bad over here where the local authority often employs a graduate engineer to check the calculations. I you make any shortcuts the are often not experienced to realise why and will demand a revised set.
There should be some sort of national code in the us on what the local authority is allowed to require regarding building permit submissions. They should not be allowed to tellll you how to do your job.
Though things can be just as bad over here where the local authority often employs a graduate engineer to check the calculations. I you make any shortcuts the are often not experienced to realise why and will demand a revised set.
Another one. I did the engineering calculations for a small chain store to be built in Truckee CA. A couple years later I got a call from the Truckee building department telling me that my calcs were wrong and that many beams were undersized. The snow load I used was less than half of the snow load in that area of Truckee. I had called them before I had performed the calcs and had used the number they gave. Come to find out the call was for a second store in a different area of Truckee that had a heavier snow load. The architect had handed in the same plans for the second store, and without calcs. The building department receptionist made copies of the calcs for the first store and attached them to the plans for the second store.
Man, idecharlotte, you are a lot smarter than I am.... In all seriousness, you may have a much better memory than me. Granted I don't right down EVERYTHING, but I'll often even just keep scrap paper calcs, just jamb them in a folder with the more formal calcs. It has proved useful in the past, but to each his own I guess.
Sailsam- how did you prevent yourself from physically accosting the building dept guy? Or at least keep yourself from say "Are you $*@$*&@#! kidding me?" We should not be having non-engineers tell us how to do our job, if you don't like my drawings and calcs, hire a PE to do a peer review.
csd- I wonder if the chinese code is not just a culture reflection of how chinese education systems work. I have seen many specials on how they teach mostly by rote, which works great up until a point, but does not necessarily foster creative thinking and problem solving.
Sailsam- how did you prevent yourself from physically accosting the building dept guy? Or at least keep yourself from say "Are you $*@$*&@#! kidding me?" We should not be having non-engineers tell us how to do our job, if you don't like my drawings and calcs, hire a PE to do a peer review.
csd- I wonder if the chinese code is not just a culture reflection of how chinese education systems work. I have seen many specials on how they teach mostly by rote, which works great up until a point, but does not necessarily foster creative thinking and problem solving.
JennyNakamura
Structural
Here's one to add to sailsam's list. I recently submitted plans to the building department for a simple rectangular single story CMU warehouse with steel W-beam roof beams. The building department sent them back with comments to revise the drawings to show the Simpson hurricane ties to anchor the steel beams from coming off the building!
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