are non-ABET degrees worthless 1

[techmaximus]

I have 16+ years of experience as an engineering technician (CMT-concrete, asphalt, soil, soils lab, rebar and PT insp.). I have just about every certification that an advanced tech can get. I have passed the NICET Level IV tests in three areas (CMT-concrete, asphalt, soil), and have several other NICET Level III certifications. My latest project is obtaining the ICC Special Inspector certifications. My plan is to have these wrapped up within the next couple of months. When this is accomplished I’ll need another learning project. To that end I have performed an exhaustive search on the internet and could find no ABET engineering degrees (BS) that could be earned strictly on a distance learning basis. ABET requires that BS engineering degree programs follow a strict semester schedule and on-line degrees are self-study and study-at-your-own-pace deals that do not follow a even a semblance of a semester schedule. For this and other reasons (lack of real at home science labs and serious advanced math) I do not believe any school offers a BS in engineering on a distance learning basis.

I did find a “school” that offers several degrees in “engineering”. The list of programs is located at the following address:

http://www.kw.edu/areas.asp?active=areas

I was hoping that some of you would take a look at these programs and tell me what you think. I mean if you saw that diploma hanging on my office wall would just laugh the second you were out of the room, or would think at least this guy made an effort, or would you think, huh, that guy is an engineer. I mean this would not get me an EIT or PE (no design work) but I am not interested in that anyway. So what do you guys think?


SCET - Techmaximus

 

[JAE]

If the licensing as a PE is not in your interest then the real issue here is the quality of the knowledge that the school would impart to you. That is something that is difficult to get a handle on.

A few suggestions, though:

1. Ask the school to provide you with any information regarding quality reviews or surveys of the school. Some schools TRY to get ABET accredited or other types of accolades and they may be able to share this with you.

2. Ask the school to provide names of former students to serve as references. This may be tough due to privacy laws but you can ask. They may end up giving you their "star" students who might just give you fluff and feathers.

3. Get a handle on their teachers/professors. These folks have credentials (or lack credentials) and this goes a long way toward finding out what they really know. The individuals doing the teaching or setting up the classwork should have relevent and high quality backgrounds. Are any of them licensed engineers?

There are all sorts of new colleges advertising on TV and other media - many with multiple locations. I have always questioned their quality with respect to any kind of engineering type topics.

 

[IRstuff]

I've heard that KW is a diploma mill.

Another option may be to see if classes taken from an accredited institution can later be credited toward a degree.

TTFN

 

[BJC]

IRstuff
It is

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d041096t.pdf

 

[lostsailor]

techmaximus,
Education is like anything else, you take it where you can find it and you get out what you put in. The certifications
you carry coupled with your work experience are enough to show that you're not a lightweight. I've come across more than a few people with degrees from "name" institutions that should never be allowed to work unsupervised and have found the reverse to be true as well. Anyone that would make a judgement based solely on one piece of paper hanging on your wall doesn't merit any serious consideration. The only person whose respect you need is the one you see in the mirror.
Regards,
RLS

 

[HVAC68]

You are not interested in PE (not many guys say this, though !!!). Then, I suppose that the purpose of your degree or diploma is learning. Then, ask all sorts of questions and find out the credentials of the school, the teaching staff, find where the past students are, etc., etc., to see whether the course offers a worthwhile investment of time and money.

HVAC68

 

[debodine]

I share your frustration in seeking an engineering degree. I have been in electrical engineering over 14 years (was avionics technician for 17 years prior to that) and I have only an A.A.S. degree in Avionics Technology. Consequently, I do not actually fit the profile of an engineer, as in most states I could not even apply for a P.E.

Anyway, I did as you have done...searched long and hard for an ABET accredited distance learning program for a BS in engineering (BSEE for me), and I found one and only one school. North Dakota State University. They still have lab requirements that mean you have to travel to the school, but they pack them into a few weeks during one summer.

However, the tuition was >$550 PER CREDIT HOUR and there is no way I could put that kind of money into it. There is a good engineering school right here in my town with a BSEE program, but it is a standard day time curriculum only, and I have no options to work any other shift but days.

The info above on NDSU is at least a year old, so don't rely on my numbers above, check it out for yourself.

I rejected the non-ABET schools because all of the engineering managers and HR recruiters I spoke to at my company (I was seeking their advice) made it clear that they recognize the non-ABET schools instantly and discount them.

The closest match I have found is an online program for a BSET (not BSEE) at Univerity of North Carolina - Charlotte, which I hope to start in about two years when I finish my current efforts to earn a BS in Management from Guilford College. And even the UNC-C program requires some summer lab attendance, but they are an hour away and NDSU is several states away.

Good hunting to you!

 

[TheTick]

As much as I like to believe otherwise, it is important what others think of your school. A non-accredited degree will put you at a disadvantage with potential employers, certification boards, and possibly even customers. If you have any desire to go to grad school, you'd be sunk.

I could be the world's greatest underachiever, if I could just learn to apply myself.

http://www.EsoxRepublic.com

-SolidWorks API VB programming help

 

[plasgears]

I am a graduate mech engr with PE, but many years ago I obtained distance training in landscape design. Seasonally I provide landscape designs for upscale home owners. It helped send four kids to college.

Trade schools typically have expertise without the depth of scholarship that characterizes universities. This separates the accredited schools from the non-accredited. You need the basic accredited schooling to enter the professional side of engineering.

Failing that, you will be a technician with great experience and trade school diplomas, something very desirable in industry, expecially when the company wants to save in the cost of professional salaries. This is prevalent in small companies and the larger companies of many years ago.

When I was at GE many years ago they had a tech who was brilliant with great potential, so they sent him to MIT. He came back to GE and became a leading engineer in R&D. I wonder if they still do that in industry.

 

[TheTick]

Good point, plasgears and a star to you. Nothing wrong with being a well-rounded technician, at all.

 

[Ron]

In order to be licensed as a Professional Engineer in almost all states, you must have a degree from an ABET accredited school. If licensing is your goal, then obviously an ABET school is the only way to go. If you have no desire for licensing, I don't see the point in pursuing an engineering degree except in a few industrial situations.

Most Engineering Technology programs will not qualify you for licensing either.

I have much respect for good technicians. They credit the engineering profession.

 

[jsummerfield]

Texas and some other states require a degree. This permits those with engineering technology and non-engineering degrees to obtain professional engineering license provided that the school is acredited. NAFTA also affected many state licensing laws to permit registration via some international programs instead of ABET acreditation. Check the regulations for each individual state of interest.

John

 

[mshimko]

I personally will discount somewhat a non-ABET certified degree when I review resumes for openings.

My company is now in the process of formalizing this "discount". That is, if a position requires an engineering degree and 5 years experience, we will accept as equal a non-ABET degree plus 8 years experience.

 

[pso311]

Ron,

As long as the schools are ABET accredited, Engineering Technology graduates can be licensed.