Are you a Structural Engineer? 2

[JayZ12]

I've been struggling with an answer to this question for sometime.

So say you are a licensed Professional Engineer that practices structural engineering. Obviously, you have passed the PE exam, but have not yet taken and passed the NCEES SE exam. Can you market yourself as a Structural Engineer in let's say Washington? Washington requires an SE for structures essentially classified as III and IV.

I've seen professionals list themselves as "Structural Engineers" in their email signatures when in fact they are only licensed as a "Professional Engineer".

I've chosen to put "Professional Engineer" with Structural Engineering (my department) listed below.

Thoughts?

 

[JStephen]

msquared, the issue I have seen is that I have an email signature block that says "JStephen PE", but doesn't say which states I'm licensed in and which I'm not. Normally not an issue, but could be misleading if I'm emailing someone in, say, Washington. But I don't recall ever seeing somebody list out 20 or 30 states after their name, either.

The Texas letter of clarification related specifically to people that lived in Texas and were licensed elsewhere, as to whether they could refer to themselves as "John Doe PE" or not, and the short answer is, they're supposed to say "John Doe PE in State X, Not Licensed in Texas" or something to that effect. Anyway, the letter is here:

http://www.tbpe.state.tx.us/nm/pa10_responseletter.pdf

I don't see anywhere that the rules in Texas prohibit the use of the SE designation or title, but they don't specifically allow for it either. But, for example:

"A person licensed under this chapter shall use the term 'Engineer,' 'Professional Engineer,' or 'P.E.' in the professional use of the person’s name on a sign, directory, listing, document, contract, pamphlet, stationery, advertisement, signature, or another similar written or printed form of identification."
So by that requirement, if you wanted to use the SE in Texas, you'd still have to use the PE also.

 

[steellion]

If you're routinely in a state that doesn't have an S.E. practice act, I see no problem with John Smith, PE, SE. The "SE" is not going to mean anything except in the 8 or so states where SE's are licensed separately and are required for certain projects. If "SE" doesn't mean anything in your state, I would doubt that your state board would ding you for that. But again, check with your specific jurisdiction.

 

[cetiger]

It ALL comes down to the individual state or states you are licensed. Many states do not license by disciplines, so in those states we are all PEs who are authorized to practice engineering. Bound by a code of engineering ethics, we (PEs) agree that we will only practice in the areas where we are competent. Some states define competency in different ways (i.e. education, testing, experience, etc.). I know Mechanical Engineers who practice Structural Engineering and vice-versa, b/c in the state where they are licensed, and as long as they are confident in their work, they have every right to seal these designs.

In other states, like some of you have mentioned, they do license PEs by discipline. Some of these states include Arizona, Louisiana, Nevada, District of Columbia, and Hawaii. For these states where I am registered, it specifically says on my seals that I am a Registered/Licensed Professional Engineer in Structural Engineering (in some form or fashion). In other states like California, Washington, and Illinois, they specifically recognize a SE. That doesn't mean ONLY a SE can design structures in those states that recognize the SE, but in most cases those states define limits (building size, height, or classification) on what a Civil PE can seal structurally and what projects a SE must seal the docs. It generally comes down the complexity of the project as the limits are defined.

TehMightyPirate...upon successful completion of the NCEES Structural exam, you will be a Structural Engineer, but recognized in your state of Maine as simply a Professional Engineer. It is certainly acceptable to provide your signature as John Doe, PE - Structural Engineer. As this list your licensed credentials (PE in Maine), but also lets those know that you practice structural engineering as opposed to the other disciplines of engineering. Once you pass the NCEES exam, you may be interested in seeking the Model Law Structural Engineer (MLSE) designation from NCEES which will help further define your experience and qualifications. It also helps in some states to speed along the licensing process when seeking reciprocity or comity to become licensed in other states especially if it is a state that licenses by discipline or recognizes the SE designation.

Also like JLNJ stated, most (if not all) Structural PEs who are not licensed in a state like CA, IL, or WA that specifically recognize a SE license, only use PE in the signature credentials, b/c using SE otherwise would lead some to believe you are a SE registered in one of those three states, where in reality you are not. Keep in mind also that the path in most of the SE states to become a licensed SE requires a PE license first in Civil and then you reapply for the SE license after having met additional requirements specific to each state.

And yes, as some have mentioned as well, if you are corresponding (letters, emails, etc.) out of state to another state where you are not licensed as a PE...be careful. You should be clarifying what state(s) you are licensed to practice if sending correspondence to a state in which you are not licensed, as this can also be misleading to others reviewing your work. It can also be taken to mean that you are offering engineering services in the recipient's state which can be a direct violation of many state boards where if caught, you could be subject to disciplinary action and fines.

Again, be sure to pay attention and read your state's laws and any other state's laws in which you seek to be licensed or upcoming projects you may be seeking to provide a proposal for engineering services. In many states, not only do you need an individual PE license in that state, but your firm or company must be licensed to practice with the state's engineering board and authorized to do business with the specific secretary of state... and this includes advertising to provide engineering services or bidding on upcoming projects as well. In other words, in a lot of states, it's illegal for an engineering firm to submit a proposal for engineering services for a project in another state(where the firm isn't licensed) and THEN become licensed once the project is rewarded.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

cetiger: Great writeup, that really does a good job of summarizing much of my thoughts and much of what people have previously posted. Assuming I pass and become licensed I think this is my course of action:

Inquire with my state board as to any rules I may have missed regarding the use of the term structural engineer (there should be none). I will also apply to NCEES for the MLSE designation as I should be able to meet that. From there I seem to have a choice, I can use John Doe PE, SE and to heck with the confusion. Or, probably the better approach is just get licensed in Illinois which differentiates between PE and SE but does not require a PE prior to getting and SE. I'm also curious about what would happen if I tried to get a PE in another state using a Maine PE license if that state didn't accept the 16-hour SE exam in lieu of the usual PE exams.

And, as you and others pointed out, I clearly cannot use PE or SE in a state without specifying that I am not licensed in that state. Good point also about submitting proposals for work without currently being licensed as an engineer.

Great tips everyone, I'm glad I asked.

Maine EIT, Civil/Structural.

 

[cetiger]

TehMP.... once you pass the SE exam, you will not have any problems becoming a PE in other states. I passed the SE I and SE II back in the day when the test was two separate parts and the SE II was optional to be a PE practicing structural in most states. Only a hand full of states required the additional SE II exam years ago, and those where typically the states that licensed SEs specifically. Keep in mind that meeting the MLSE designation still does not give you the credentials to put SE behind your name, as that again implies you are registered as a SE in Illinois, Cali or Washington. The way your name would read after meeting the MLSE would be John Doe, PE, MLSE until you went on to get licensed in a SE state...and yes, I have the Illinois SE which does not require a PE license prior, but in CA it does require that I seek a Civil PE first and then SE license. You however have an advantage over some of us who took the two-part SE I and SE II exams years ago. Since NCEES implemented the new 16hr Structural exam, states like CA and WA now except it without any additional testing, which is good for you. Prior to the 16hr Structural, you had to take SE I, SE II, and a state specific exam some referred to as the SE III...that's a lot of testing! B/c these states recognize the new 16hr Structural, they no longer offer their state specific SE III exams. Therefore for me to meet the CA/WA SE requirements, I'm required to take (which in my mind is retake) the new 16hr Structural exam. I remember my days of just taking one of the 8 hr Structural exams at a time and that was mind-numbing by the end of the day. I can't imagine having to turnaround and do it all over again the very next day. I get it, I guess, just don't want to do it again. Best of luck to you and any others sitting for the 16hr SE in the coming weeks!

 

[msquared48]

Yep... That 16 hour marathon was a mind bender, and a few beers were required during the post-mortem.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering