Arrogant Engineers 37

[sbozy25]

Ok... So someone tell me why this is.....

I notice it with most customers and suppliers I work with, as well as my-self from time to time. I even notice it in these forums.

What is it that makes engineers so arrogant? I was asked this earlier today by someone that thougth i was being arrogant because I told them a convesion from mm to inches was easy. In these forums, if you read most of our posts... you will even notice there is a sence of this arrogance in a good portion of the responses....

Is it because we are for the most part well educated and that makes us this way? Or is it that we are all "nerds" and do not have the best interpersonal communication skills? Or are we just a large group of cocky know it alls?

I don't know, perhaps arrogance is not the word I am looking for, but you all know what I am getting at.

 

[GrimesFrank]

Arrogance is used by insecure people, so they can remind themselves of how superior they believe themselves to be.

Thats it precisely.
Why do some doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc display arrogance. There are other factors in their life they are supremely insecure about so they must thrust the aspect of their life they excel at.
The best non-arrogant engineer's I have met, have done something other than engineering in their life and have rounded themselves.
The reason why neophyte university students are heaped with the ERTW non-sense is because most often they aren't well rounded and require something to give them confidence to maintain "university life" (social, grades, etc). The problem however arises when these students emerge and need to hold on to that thinking to cope with their life.

Presto chango.....you go from being a post-pubescent, hormonal student.........to a jerk in the handing of a scroll.

Today is gone. Today was fun.
Tomorrow is another one.
Every day, from here to there,
funny things are everywhere. ~'Dr.' Theodor Geisel

 

[IRstuff]

With doctors, it's not arrogance, it's self-preservation. As with many things engineering, there's never 100% knowledge of the situation and conditions. In engineering, that's generally dealt with by design margins and some assumption of future risk.

With a patient, he's either dying of cancer or has a completely benign tumor, and there's no future risk, it's present and the patient is right there in front of you. Any level of self doubt will eat you alive and you'd burn out in a matter of months, so you have to be certain, just to keep your sanity.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[FACS]

I'm 45-years-old and I can still walk on my hands, It's quite easy, I can't believe anyone can't do it, it's so easy.



Charlie

http://www.facsco.com

 

[MechanicalChef]

"Doctors kill people one at a time. Engineers do it by the hundreds." :hehe: "In engineering, that's generally dealt with by design margins and some assumption of future risk." Plus there is a measure more consistency in a slab of aluminum than say, some guy's liver. Plus I can another one of those from McMaster.

I suppose it's easy to see how an engineer can come off as an arrogant know-it-all. But by nature, engineers are supposed to be know-it-alls about a lot of things. Either way, I try my hardest not to be talk at a stratospheric level around certain people. People like the technician on my project. The last thing I want him to believe is that I think I'm smarter than he is.

 

[Bester2]

Here I pose a question to you.

Do arrogant people choose to be engineers or does engineering make a person arrogant?

I have been considered arrogant my entire life. I do not feel that I am an arrogant person by any means. I do not brag about my accomplishments (or at least I try not to). I am also shy and tend to not talk when I do not feel comfortable. But I will talk up a storm when the topic and situation are right. Maybe this polar opposite personality trait leads individuals to believe that a person is arrogant because he/she was quite while other people talk about common social topics but couldn't be shut up when he/she started talking about technical/nerdy subject matter. This expression about subject matter that most engineers find interesting may/will be a topic that a large portion of society have no knowledge of or care to learn. I believe this separation of interest is the leading contributor to the perception of arrogant engineers.

Brian

How arrogant dose this post sound???



Brian
SW 2006 SP 4.1

 

[ewh]

Charlie,
You arrogant B*****D!!!

 

[patdaly]

Dave, a star for you.

Of course,I guess I could be called arrogant for that, oh, the inhumanity.

I still haven't heard anyone tell me why I shouldn't be arrogant.

Another thing, Arrogance is a rainbow of colors......

 

[KENAT]

Pride comes before a fall/fool?

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[ajack1]

KENAT, I think that is extremely arrogant to suggest you know when Lions give birth. ;-)

 

[KENAT]

Sorry, guess I slipped up on that arrogant thing again.


KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[SomptingGuy]

Arrogant engineers...

I tend to keep my gob shut unless on firm ground. Therefore my non-engineer acquaintances always consider me arrogant. How to win?

 

[Ashereng]

Are engineers really any more arrogant than other professions? trades? services? ...

I have met arrogant people across a whole host of industries, markets, jobs, what have you, including the check-out person at McDonald's who told me that $1.95 from $5 is $2.95 change, and that I can't add (well, technically, it's subtract, but I quibble).

Then again, since we engineers are really that good, then it really isn't arrogance then is it? ;-)

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[BJC]

Question: What's the difference between God and an engineer??
Ans: God doesn't think he's an engineer.

 

[TDAA]

Then who is the "Intelegent Designer"?

 

[KENAT]

That's the point. Inteligent design not inteligent engineereing.

It was done by a designer not an engineer.

You know what designers are like, just look at a couple of posts complaining about them lately.;-)




KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[Maui]

Everyone has something that they can teach you, but you won't learn anything from them unless you are willing to listen. Some engineers choose not to listen to the opinions of others, especially if those opinions are expressed by non-engineers such as sales people, marketing employees, lab technicians, manufacturing workers, managers, etc. I personally am almost always willing to listen to the opinions expressed by others, but rarely am I inclined to pursue their ideas if I don't perceive that they contain the required technical merit to solve the problem. While these people can sometimes come up with very creative and technically sound suggestions to resolve specific engineering issues, I would say that the majority of the time the person with the background and experience in the job (i.e. the degreed engineer) will come up with the most viable solution. And that's why they were hired - to perform engineering. When non-engineering professionals feel that their opinions or contributions are not valued by the engineer, they may perceive this type of response as arrogant.

I understand that people need to feel respected and valued. If they believe that the engineer does not respect them or value their opinion, it chips away at their self-esteem. And it hurts. Putting yourself in their shoes can make this a very enlightening experience. But when the discussion turns to a technical nature and centers around a project that I am working on or am responsible for, I will not back down or compromise when it comes to the fundamental engineering principles or procedures that impact the outcome of that project. And I expect the people that I work with to respect my opinion when it comes to engineering. The consequences of allowing someone to marginalize the quality and safety of a design is not an acceptable price to pay in order to incorporate their ideas or input. This is another way that engineers may be perceived as arrogant.

And then there's the insecure guy who tries to mask his lack of confidence and ability with an over-the-top display. I haven't met any engineers who I would say fit that description yet, but you never know. They may be one out there somewhere...

Maui

 

[epoisses]

There is some truth in the engineers and arrogance statement in the sense that *certain* engineers consider themselves the only species capable of sound decision making, on any level engineering or not (marketing, politics...).

I remember myself as an inexperienced eng taking part in a multi disciplinary project meeting with sales guys and what have you. I did not like the project idea from the beginning and at a certain point I could not hold back any longer and told everyone that I was sorry to let them know that from engineering point, the project idea was fundamentally flawed (or I think I said bs). Complete silence, blank faces staring at me, says one of the sales guys: "So???".

That is when I realised a 4th dimension exists, which, as I told myself, I should maybe start to explore a bit further as part of my professional progress.

The alternative would have been to resign and become a world famous cartoonist

 

[ubrben]

I think the way sales and marketing, project management, etc roles dominate modern businesses there's a defensiveness from engineers who feel (often quite rightly) that they actually create the product and should be valued more.

Defensiveness can often come across as arrogance.

Ben

 

[PSE]

Early in my career I was quite likely able to come across as arrogant. In my office I had a plaque (given as a gift when I was in High School) "Nobody's perfect, just some of us are closer than others". If you did not know my sense of humor, you could easily regard it as something arrogant to have on display. I still have it only I keep it at home.

I also remember using statements (which may or may not be "original") such as:

"He who thinks he knows everything, only serves to irritate those of us who do."

"I have no superiors, and @#%& few equals".

These are taken out of context from the otherwise humorous conversations in which they were used. Arrogant statements, absolutely. If someone did not know me well enough, I would undoubtedly be "branded" an arrogant person.

Thankfully as my career has progressed and evolved, I have become aware that how I am perceived by others (especially those without a technical background), is an essential skill to being successful in what I do. The people I work with have widely varying skillsets (technical and otherwise) and I keep a repertoire of simple examples so when someone in casual conversation asks me what I do, I have something they can easily relate to.

Regards,

 

[csd72]

If someone started lecturing you on the legal implications of your actions you would not call them arrogant, you would call them a lawyer.

People dont tend to question what the doctor, lawyer or accountant says but they do tend to question the engineers all the time. This lack of respect for our knowledge often breeds arrogant reactions.

We also do a complicated job and make it look simple, it is often much easier to be dismissive than to explain the reasons for our decisions in laymans terms.

Dumbing down the details is sometimes hard to do without sounding condescending.

csd