Attractive Drawings 5

[drawoh]

I am reviewing drawings here and I am being a bit of an asshole. We are a manufacturing service company and all of our drawings may be shown to the customer. In addition to being clear, we need them to look good and professional.

I am asking for well organized drawings with consistent fonts, with dimensions, notes, section lines and whatever positioned to be clearly visible. I don't want dimensions line crammed together such that I cannot see which dimension and which feature they apply to.

Is there a good article or other reference on this? Do I need to sit down and write one?

--
JHG

 

[drawoh]

I think having a dedicated checker is 'a thing of the past' at most places.

I am the drawing checker. I need to know what I can get away with rejecting. That drawing of your looks absolutely cool, and it shows off something that went away with drafting boards. The lettering is perhaps too cool to be completely readable.

--
JHG

 

[dik]

When I check and seal shop drawings, my comments are similar to the 'red' marks above. I'm happy with that... With the handrail detail, there was another detail not shown that I added the shear and tension loads for the fastener.

You are part of a vanishing breed... fifty years back, plan checkers were common... and used to sign off on drawings... not so much today.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

I almost never reject stuff... I correct it and have the EOR confirm my correction. This puts the onus back on him. If stuff is mis-spec'd (withdrawn spec, or whatever) I still have the EOR confirm the new spec. I often see stuff stipulating CSA S16.1 which was superceded 20 years ago... Current is S16. I don't put a date on it... my notes stipulate the current code stipulated edition.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[CWB1]

Checkers are still common. I'm sure a few companies have gotten rid of them but it's extremely foolish bc prints, models, and sales-docs give customers their first impression of your company. If I cold-call a potential supplier I expect high-quality prints/models/docs within 24 hours so I can evaluate whether/not their parts are worth pursuing. If I have to jump hoops to receive data or see data quality issues then I'm not risking my reputation by using that supplier.

Drawoh, if you have opportunity you might ask long-term customers, the shop floor, or other users for feedback.
Pet peeves of mine:
1. Inconsistent prints within the same family of parts. When you're comparing multiple similar parts, having the print views and major dims in similar locations are appreciated.
2. Having to waste time searching complex, multi-sheet prints bc related views/dims/etc aren't physically near each other (or on the same sheet).
3. Too much complexity per sheet. The SE/CE crowd may disagree but IMHO prints should be limited to D-size and easily legible if printed/plotted at that. I dont mind a dozen views or a few dozen dims per sheet, but I've seen massive prints crammed onto a single sheet that should've been 3-5.
4. Sloppy work otherwise.

 

[SDETERS]

Most of this stuff can be set in your Drafting software, lock your text sizes, and all your preferences, so it takes 80% of your issues away. Then you only have to worry about the 20% for clarity and professionalism. Also training at the high level down to the designer/drafter they need to know the expectations of their work. To fix things well it needs to be done at the executive level.

 

[greenimi]

This can’t be serious.................................................
...............................
John Acosta, GDTP Senior Level

It is not. I agree.

 

[geesaman.d]

I grew up learning drafting on the board and almost immediately, CAD. I never did develop a personal lettering style nor the ability to letter with great consistency. I certainly didn't get around to board drafting drawings to look good. On one hand, it's a shame. On the other hand, I learned a heck of a lot (and stood out) by learning the details of the CAD systems and how to get the CAD to answer as many questions as possible. I do admire manual drafting work especially when it has a bit of artistic flair and tidy appearance.

I think having a dedicated checker is 'a thing of the past' at most places.

It can be, and quality and delivery usually sucks. It's pretty easy to economically justify a dedicated checker or peer review step by doing a trial. Any error that leaves Engineering usually costs multiples of what it would have taken to stop it. Whatever the checker catches is a savings. There should be plenty of 'what it costs' data out there unless your company is devoid of a functional quality system, in which case that also also a major deficiency.

I've not used a drafting style manual before. I've seen some things mentioned in obsolete company standards but they have been ignored for some years. Choosing one makes a lot of sense and gives you drafters a fair play to get it right on the first go, so that you remain a checker and not an editor. I was lucky that in my first year one of our senior mechanical engineers started as a machinist and had really great feedback on how to improve the readability of a machining drawing. That stuff adds up.

Getting into the mechanics - since CAD systems really are configured minimally anymore, I judge a drawing by several things:
- Legibility - did the drafter provide adequate spacing between dimensions, use an appropriate view scale, and reasonable line weights?
- White space - did the drafter use an appropriate page size and quantity of sheets? Or did they cram things into every available space and make the entire thing a confusing, context-less mess?
- Isometric views - they're almost free now. Give me one or two.
- 11x17 - for C/D size drawings, I prefer that they be legible when reduced to 11x17. I might need to squint a bit but having the 11x17 option is usually a benefit.
- Cross-section hatching - I prefer to angle/pattern the hatching in varying ways so that touching components do not have the same cross hatching. Most CAD systems require the user to go through this piece by piece and I prefer when the drafter does exactly that.
- Company standards - there should be consistent fonts, font sizes, dimension styles, line styles, title block, tolerance preferences, etc. It just makes everyone more efficient and once it's set in the CAD configuration it's mostly forgotten.
- Black and white. Get that multi-color shaded garbage out of here. In my world it adds little value and makes copying, conversions, and archival much more difficult.
- Clear, complete technical definition. Don't add redundant dimensions, leave out dimensions, or detail in a note what could be shown with a view and dimensions.

David

 

[drawoh]

geesaman.d,

I spent fifteen years on a drafting board. Architects need to develop cool looking lettering. For mechanical design, all I need to be is neat and clear. I have seen shoddy lettering, and it communicated to me that the drafter did not give a sh*t.

I have set up here with only two sizes, A[ ]size with 2mm font and B[ ]size with 2.5mm font. I have just discovered that my B[ ]size drawings are readable on a cellphone.

--
JHG

 

[SDETERS]

With all of this old drafting board history, drafting views, and such, soon will be no more 2D drawings will be a thing of the past. The 3D Model will take over with model views and PMI. Would this 3D PMI take over and the 2D drawing is a thing of the past?

 

[greenimi]

With all of this old drafting board history, drafting views, and such, soon will be no more 2D drawings will be a thing of the past. The 3D Model will take over with model views and PMI. Would this 3D PMI take over and the 2D drawing is a thing of the past?

That's an entirely discussion all together. Maybe opening up a new thread worth it.

 

[dik]

I don't endorse eliminating checkers... it was a statement.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Burunduk]

Burunduk,
Please, don't ask and let this discussion be filled with indecency. This should be (and it is so far) a professional thread. Keep it like that.

Haha! sorry
Luckily no indecent drawings were posted as a response to that request.

 

[Burunduk]

dik,
Interesting example, structural stuff.

What would you say about this one?

 

[dik]

Nice...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

That was the only reason, I didn't...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[drawoh]

Checkers are still common. I'm sure a few companies have gotten rid of them but it's extremely foolish bc prints, models, and sales-docs give customers their first impression of your company. If I cold-call a potential supplier I expect high-quality prints/models/docs within 24 hours so I can evaluate whether/not their parts are worth pursuing. If I have to jump hoops to receive data or see data quality issues then I'm not risking my reputation by using that supplier.

I am working in an aggressive ISO quality environment. We will be checking drawings.

--
JHG

 

[udraft]

I don't know that you can reject drawings just on poor appearance. BUT, if anything is unclear, ambiguous or missing, would be reject (or comment)

 

[drawoh]

udraft,

It all depends on my level of authority. We are a contract manfacturer, and we provide all sorts of design support to our customers. Our drawings must project professionalism.

--
JHG

 

[dik]

as I noted, "...most people don't see engineers except for their products..."

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

Burunduk...
and another...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik