Automotive Engineer's Salary chart? 5

[SusTestEng]

Review time is upon us at my company, and I am asking for a bit of help here. Whenever I bring up salary in my review, HR always pulls out some "special" survey of automotive companies and says I'm on track with the industry average. I really don't believe it! Just by doing some quick reseach on the net I found Mechanical engineers salaries to be grossly above(15-20%) what I earn in this area of the US. I know you can't believe everything you read on the net, but it's got me pretty frustrated.
So I have a couple questions for others in my field and situation. So, just some quick background... I work on the development side of the business, as my name suggests, I test and develop the suspension settings for vehicles. I take on a massive amount of responsibility to the vehicles I develop (I almost work alone on a new vehicle and make almost all of the decisions). I may not have the number of years to back up the resume, but my list of involvement, current responsibilities, and experience is rather extensive. This is particular to the Detroit, MI area, but please comment on any area of the world.

Is the Automotive industry below other Mechanical engineering feilds in terms of salary, which would deem a "special" survey appropriate?

Do you feel you are currently being paid the norm in the industry?

What is the common salary spread (USD) at your company for:
1-3yrs ENGINEER(recent grad/training)?
4-9yrs Senior Engineer?
10-15yrs Principal Engineer?



If you think I'm completly out line for asking, I'm sorry. I'm just really frustrated and want to make my situation better and not have to move my family.

 

[SusTestEng]

AND, how does your company handle overtime? Straight pay? Premium pay(1.5X)? compensation time off? Nothing?

 

[Rich2001]

Look at the U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics website

http://www.bls.gov/bls/blswage.htm

 

[SusTestEng]

I have looked at that site before. The only problem is it just gives a mean salary, and doesn't break it down into position. Example, you may have alot of 2-7 yr people and very few 10-15yr people, so how does that through of that mean. So I felt that that info was not very useful, except to compare to other engineers as a whole.

Thanks though

 

[Comcokid]

Having worked on the fringe of the automotive field several years ago, I too noticed and experienced the fact that salaries were below what an equivalent job would be in other US industry segments.

I've worked for a number of companies around the US, and in many different industries. Only one paid for overtime at a straight-pay rate. Other companies had an overtime policy, but no co-worker was ever known to have actually received overtime pay.

 

[HDS]

The only way to find the true value of a car or house is to sell it. The only way to know for sure what your worth is to find another job. Short of that the best you can do is look at adds and talk to local peers. Location is very important.

My experience with overtime is the best you can hope for is some comptime. 20 hours of over time might get you an afternoon off.

Also try.

http://www.michlmi.org/jobseeker/layout04.jsp

The most important thing determining your pay should be the amount of responability you have. Are the projecets $10,000 or $10,000,000.

 

[NickE]

One thing you may have to realize is that real (adjusted for inflation) starting salarys for recent grads (whether BS or MS degree) have not really gone up since~ 1999.

I sent out over 400 resume's in summer and fall 2001 and had no call backs. After two other postitions now I'm actually making what BS engineers were getting to start in 1998. (I have an MS). I think that ASM did a salary survey in my field and 15yrs+ experience was only really payin 100k.

As discussed in other threads engineering is not the way to make serious money.

Also unless you live in Oakland County the Detroit area has a relatively low cost of living.

nick

 

[DonMcC]

I have also wondered whether I am selling myself short. One of the things I have been tempted to do was to place a blind ad in the newspaper: Electrical Engineer Wanted: Must have 5-7 years experience in switch mode power supply design, thorough understanding of magnetics, EMI, layout, and manufacturing techniques. Must be able to mangage several projects simultaneously...etc Send Resumes complete with SALARY HISTORY to PO Box BR549.

I never did follow through with this and maybe there are ethical questions in doing it, but it would definitely let me know how much people with my experience are already getting paid in my geographical area. Even if only a few people sent in their salary history, I would be able to see if my salary is in the general ballpark. I formed a company while out of work a year ago and thus would have been able to get it past the classifieds newspaper editor, but I don't think doing this would be ethical.

Just a thought...

 

[IRstuff]

http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p60-221.pdf

reports that the median US per capita income was only $22,794

TTFN

 

[SusTestEng]

HDS "The most important thing determining your pay should be the amount of responability you have. Are the projecets $10,000 or $10,000,000."

I can spend $10,000 a week during some of my testing. I work with $500,000 prototype vehicles every day. Some of the decisions I make can account for millions in tooling costs. If I had to put a number on it, I would say my yearly projects are around $5-$7 Million at the low end in pure cost, not profit.

NickE "As discussed in other threads engineering is not the way to make serious money."

I'm not after serious money, I just want what I feel I deserve. Or think I deserve for that matter, that is why I am asking the questions in this thread, to see if I am on par with my peers in the Automotive industry.

"Also unless you live in Oakland County the Detroit area has a relatively low cost of living."

I live in the Ann Arbor Area. Taxes and Houseing is pretty rediculus for a midwest town!


Another easy fair question for all would be: What is the starting salary(fresh out of school) at your Automotive engineering job?

 

[bubb375]

STE-

Unfortunately, I can't answer any of your questions. But I can say there is a similar "report" used by the airline industry so you are not alone. Their rhetoric is the same: we surveyed similar or competing airlines for what they pay their engineers with similar experience...yadda yadda.

It may be best to try and find out where HR gets their information or "survey" from. There must be a third-party company that does the survey anonomously. Google should come in handy here. I doubt that the competing HR departments are swapping information directly.

Anyway, don't give up. You are gaining experience as we speak and will eventually qualify for a bigger and better job. Personally, I ignore the survey and just take it as a bunch of propoganda. Remember that HR works for the company's benefit, not for your benefit!

Brian

 

[RDK]

Most of the Canadian associations do salary surveys of their members.

See

http://www.apegm.mb.ca

and follow the links for links to the other Canadian associations. The Manitoba information is under “information to members” Ontario would have the most automotive engineers of any Canadian province.

This should give you an idea of the salary rates across Canada, they breakdown the information by discipline, responsibility, experience and education.

Be careful comparing the rates to US rates. Our tax system and benefit system (mostly health care) is vastly different than that in the US. Don’t forget the exchange rate. ($CDN=$US0.75)

Some of your local associations and or industry groups should have similar information. If not show them some of the Canadian reports and suggest that they conduct a similar survey. I would think that most of the Canadian associations would share their techniques on how they analyze this information.


The idea of an ad asking for salary history would be unethical. Who would you feel if you responded to such an ad and then found out there was no job there and all the person wanted was to know your salary history? Besides would you trust this information in the first place?


Do some research on Google and on some of the major job boards. They have some salary information and some positions may mention a salary.


Ask your HR department for a copy of the salary survey that they are basing your salary on. If they claim confidentially or policy prevents them then the survey is most likely a few phone calls or non-existent.


Have you ever worked with any independent consultants in this area? Typically in my field of construction, charge out rates are full salary costs multiplied by 2 for long-term work or 2.5 for short-term work. Salary costs includes all associated costs, typically the hourly rate plus vacation, benefits, employment insurance etc. Assume15 to 25% Therefore a consultant charged out at $100 for short-term work would be earning around (100/2.5)/1.2=33.33 per hour or around $65,000 per year. (Assuming 20% overburden for salary costs.) You should be able to find out typical mark up rates and salary overburdens (Hint ask an accountant about overburden rates locally)

Good luck







Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[JoeTank]

The National Society of Professional Engineers does a yearly survey of salaries based on region, discipline and industry.

http://www.nspe.org

Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[TheTick]

from the Things I Wish I had the Nerve to Actually Say archives...

"Gee, Mr. HR Manager, why don't we just put that silly chart away and just talk about how much this company thinks I am actually worth to them."

"Great ideas need landing gear as well as wings."--C. D. Jackson

http://www.EsoxRepublic.com

 

[HDS]

I have actully had those charts give a raise twice during the 90s. Hay Group is one of the big producers of such charts.

http://www.haygroup.com

 

[GregLocock]

Specifically in Detroit at one of your competitors graduates start out at on base salaries around 40-50 k (I'm a bit flaky on this), and senior engineers top out around 100 k (almost exactly), at which point they either stay the same for the rest of their careers, become technical specialists or supervisors/managers or get retrenched. This would happen at an age between 35 and 50, depending on a lot of things.

Suspension developement engineers are underpaid on this scale because they (a) are doing a job for which there are hundreds of applicants for every vacancy and (b) they don't interact with the company hierarchy enough to get noticed. In general in the automotive world the fun jobs are poorly paid - go and work in motorsports if you don't believe me.

I've never found it worth arguing about pay rises once inside a particular company, the only times I've successfully negotiated large raises is before I work for them. A very successful tactic was to rejoin a company I had left two years earlier. My pay for the same job increased by 64% in that two years! (from a low base, obviously)

I wouldn't really compare value of contracts in the same way as other companies -a guy who signs off on buying 10 million dollars worth of machining equipment a year has a much more fundamental responsibility than the guy who decides whether the front road spring should be 30 or 35 N/mm rate, which also costs 10 million dollars a year.



Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[NickE]

greg-

you are right:
"In general in the automotive world the fun jobs are poorly paid - go and work in motorsports if you don't believe me."

absolutely..

I love my current job, I would not change it for the world. The only difficulty is that I am currently (through student loan debt, bad financial planning, motorsports dreams, etc...) unable to afford an apartment (even on Wayne State's campus) alone. I know its my fault for accumulating the debt, however I feel that w/o changing jobs and becoming the engineer in a box (I do everything from repair prototyping machines to CFD-simulations to failure analysis to design) and loosing the variety of my current job, I will be in the same "boat" for many more years...

nick

 

[jjdavis]

Have you tried hotjobs.com? They have a salary calculator, but I don't know how accurate it is.

 

[Amberjak]

If you are really concerned about money first, then simply use your degree and experience and get into management. People in management are generally stupid and lazy but they make more money. Sometimes as much as 3 times as much.Example: My father in law was a Chemical Engineer with a large corporation then went into management. The average Chemical Engineer makes between 60 - 100k a year. He pulls in over 500k a year. So if it's just money you are looking for then management will probably get you there.

 

[sundevil98]

There's some good info at

http://www.salary.com