Bachelors in Civil Engineering is killing me, help please.... 16

[pra713]

I am in a situation right now and I blame myself for it. I want some advice on this matter....

I am in about to complete my fourth semester in Civil Engineering Bachelors. It's not a subject of choice, I went into it because of my parents. Again I can't stress this enough, I blame myself... But in my defense, the place where I live, it's very common. The subject of my choice would be computer programming or something similar.

I am good at computers, and I am fairly good at Maths. I am a fairly bright student, or at least I used to be. In my first semester, I had the highest grades in my class but now it is going down, I am barely managing to keep up. I think the main reason is that I hardly have any interest or motivation in Civil Engineering. I am hardly being able to grab the concepts. So far, I hate Hydraulics because it's so empirical and I hate soil and foundation engineering even more. The only subject I can at least stand is the Structural Engineering part. But I am only in my fourth semester.

I like programming and I want to incorporate it with Civil Engineering. My grades are falling. I have a feeling I am going to hit rock bottom soon unless I find some kind of motivation to drive me forward. I spend my free time trying to learn programming on my own. I know C and FORTRAN because they were in my first semester. I am learning C++ on my own and I think I am doing fairly well. I am about to start learning Java. Is this a good idea? Am I wasting my time trying to learn programming just because I love it and am good at it? Am I wasting my time with Civil Engineering? Can I keep working on my programming while learning Civil Engineering? Is there any way I can incorporate my programming knowledge with Civil Engineering and make a living out of it?

Right now, my plan is to finish my bachelors in Civil Engineering, which means 2 more years and then giving Civil Engineering a try. If I fail, I will go into programming. Is this a stupid idea? There is no way to go for Masters in Computer Engineering or Computer Science after finishing bachelors in Civil, is there? Will it be too late if I finish Bachelors in Civil Engineering and find out that it's not something I can spend my entire life doing? Will there still be time to switch to Programming? Is this a really stupid question to ask??

I am really confused. Again, I have only myself to blame. But now that I am in this situation, I don't know what to do. So can anyone please help me and give me some good advice??? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Forensic74]

My wife and I both have masters degrees from top 5 engineering universities in the United States, and our *combined* salary, in our mid 30s, is less than my old college roommate who dropped out and started working for a software company. Civil Engineering is for suckers. Tell your parents they're dumb for steering you into it. If I wasn't 15 years into my career, I'd abandon it and learn Oracle or something.

lol, now that's some great advertising for Campbell Civil Consulting.

 

[Twoballcane]

@beej67, do you have any data to back your statement? The way I see it is that the CEs are doing better than computer programmers these days. And that job growth for CEs is better than computer programmers.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
“Luck is where preparation meets opportunity”
"People get promoted when they provide value and when they build great relationships"

 

[TomDOT]

beej67 may be confusing "anecdote" with "data" - pay is incredibly variable for programmers, and fairly variable for CEs. That said, the median programmer salary appears to be moderately higher than the median for CEs. It's certainly not double. Of course, programmers tend to work in high cost-of-living areas, such as Silicon Valley - so a correction factor would need to be used.

 

[RossABQ]

I think it's also very common for sophomores in ANY field to start questioning their choices -- it's part of growing up. I just about dropped out 2nd semester sophomore year (diffy-Q was a part of that). I stayed the course and found the last two years, with classes mostly in my major, were far better than the first two. How about getting an intern position with a CE company for a semester or so, to get a taste of what it's about?

 

[beej67]

Hey, now, Mainman, I'm only 3 years into my firm and as of this fiscal year I'm now making more than I ever made working for anyone else, plus I have time during the week to spend with my 1yr old son. I call that progress.

That doesn't mean I don't stand by my recommendation to pra713. Even if median salary is the same, it's still an obvious choice to do CS. CS requires less education and it's easier. CE is tied at the hip to land development, which crashes like clockwork around every ten years. (next crash somewhere between 2018 and 2021, for those keeping track) Twoballcane - of course CE is going to post slightly better growth than some other industries now, it shrunk by 50% or more in some areas of the country not three years ago. Do you think when the next crash happens, and CE job growth is negative again, that CS growth will do the same? No. You guys are cherry picking a single data point on the leading edge of the next development boom and applying it over the rest of pra713's potential career. CE is boom/bust, and it's on the way up because it was so down.

CE is also the weakest career choice of all the other engineering fields. It's the bottom of the scale of all engineering, because CE is a low bid industry, and most other industries of similar intellectual caliber are not. I had a fascinating discussion with a college bud who works for GE about that. GE apparently spends a huge amount of time and effort pressuring their clients to avoid any sort of bid system, because they see the writing on the wall. Once you start participating in an open marketplace, the consumer saves and the provider loses. The business of civil engineering has been steadily losing for 30 some odd years because of this.

I hold a bachelors and masters degree from a top five engineering university, I'm adjunct faculty, and I run my own civil engineering business. When my 1 year old boy turns 18, I'm not going to press him to go to college at all. If he decides to go, I will heavily press him to pick a field based on ROI. If he goes engineering, I will calmly and reasonably suggest he picks a different engineering field than Civil. Chemical, CompE, Biomed, IE, etc.



Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[Forensic74]

Sounds to me like you did a bad job of diversifying your company's work to weather any downturn. However, I don't think that's just cause to generalize and say Civil Engineering is for suckers. There are plenty of CE's I know who are doing really well for themselves, and are in better/happier positions than a lot of non CE engineers. And I question the capacity of a owner of a company who publicly derides his own profession...who would want to hire a guy who obviously hates his job? Oh wait, I know the answer, the type of client who wants to choose the lowest bidder.

 

[Twoballcane]

“Twoballcane - of course CE is going to post slightly better growth than some other industries now, it shrunk by 50% or more in some areas of the country not three years ago. Do you think when the next crash happens, and CE job growth is negative again, that CS growth will do the same? No.”

I understand what you are saying and what you have perceived, but without studies or articles to indicate this, it just hear say. From what I found to support my argument is that according to United States Department of Labor who has all of the data have indicated that CE has a better growth potential than computer programming. The United States Department of Labor has no gains to produce any bias numbers. Thus it is not my opinion, but calculated data from a prominent source. All fields have their ups and downs. Even areas we think where the grass is greener are having their negative slope in job prospects, RoI, and salary such as Lawyers and Doctors. The computer industry took a huge hit back in 2000 and it has not recovered yet due to outsourcing. Somewhere in the USDL data determined that CE has a better positive outlook than computer programming.

From the infamous statements from mutual fund companies, “past performance does not guarantee future performance”, or something like that. To strategize one’s career is also very important be it in any engineering field or others. There are always niches and even micro niches in one’s field that you have to survey and make decisions to either enter when you think it will take off or get out when it tanks. The trend is not instantaneous but slow moving enough to take notice. For example, when computers started getting big, the Mechanical Engineers who got into electronic packaging and nano technology are doing better than let’s say Mechanical Engineers who do HVAC (I’m not trying to pick on anybody and I could be wrong). I’m sure it is the same in CE in this regard.


Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
“Luck is where preparation meets opportunity”
"People get promoted when they provide value and when they build great relationships"

 

[beej67]

"Sounds to me like you did a bad job of diversifying your company's work to weather any downturn."

Too funny. My prior firm went from 42 employees to 7 in the course of a year when the market crashed, and we were one of the lucky ones. Most of our competitors folded. I left to start my own firm largely because they refused to lay me off and kept giving me other guys jobs. Many of the people I worked with at the time only recently found work, after being unemployed for a year, sometimes more.

You talk as if there's some kind of giant Easy Button you can push to diversify so that you always have work even when the development stops. That isn't easy in a profession tied at the hip to development. More - it's impossible depending on what your engineering specialty is.

The truth is that some firms were able to weather this most recent crash because they were already heavily vested in Federal work and they sucked off the Bailout Teet. They grew, others died. Now the private work is coming back and everybody's excited about being a civil engineer again. But there was a crash in 2000 that hit civils. And a crash in 1990 that hit civils. And then the Carter administration. They happen because investment in land development is a harmonic oscillating system, and they will continue to happen, to one degree or another, as long as we work in a free market. Like a flag flapping in the breeze. And if you're paying attention to the fiscal condition of the federal government, you should realize that the next flap won't have a bailout attached, because the next bubble to burst will be the currency itself.

I'm surprised about the selective memory on these forums. Go search for some posts from 2009.



Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[ISCK]

pra713, it's good that you're giving your major a second thought but please consider the following things:

1. Make sure you're giving up on Civil Engineering because you have no interest in it at all. Make sure without a doubt that it wasn't regret that's that driving force for abandoning the subject (regret as in feeling the need to rebel against your parents wishes for you to become a Civil Engineer).

2. Make sure you know WHY are you selecting Computer Engineering/Science over Civil Engineering. In other words, why not become a Physics major, Math major, Liberal Arts major, Business major, Pre-med, Physical Therapy, Biomedical, Electrical engineering, etc...?

3. Make sure you're not quitting something just because it's hard. Obstacles are never going to end in life, so we must be tenacious at times. If you find yourself hopping from one subject to another just because something is hard, you'll be hopping all the time. Realize this before you waste too much time.

4. It's also too early to think about how much you'll get paid because you're selecting one major over another. The pay will come after you find the right clients by understanding their needs. Are you top notch at what you can do (whether it be a service or a product)? What makes you different from your peers who are doing the same thing? I'm sure you've heard of Apple before. Why is it that they can sell their products at a premium over their competitors? Why are people willing to pay the extra dollar for the product?


Side track:
I switched from Computer Engineering (programming) to Civil Engineering in my sophomore year because I was getting migraines from too much computer screen staring. I graduated with my BS in Civil, passed my EIT, but became tech support for about three years. It's a little funny how things are turning out, but you'll find your calling too. Mine will be developing apps for engineering purposes. I'll still want to get experience and understand what it means to be a PE - I'll be able to better relate to my future clients, and for my Master's, I'll be looking forward to a MS in Computational Science and Engineering. I hope this helps!

 

[Ozy001]

Hi,

I know this may come a little late but I thought I could maybe help you out. Many of the comments here are pretty good in terms of suggesting what you should do (as in do what makes you happy) however there is more to life than the here and now. When I was a little younger I enjoying playing video games etc so when the time came to go to uni I decided that the course for me was a BSc (Hons) Computer Aided Design, I seen it as a way to get into software development, designing, modelling, rapid prototyping etc for the games industry. When I finished I found it quite difficult to get employed in the industry and as such ended up working for software house designing software for the construction industry. One thing led to another and within 6 months I was “posted out” to a bespoke housing manufacturer to help with training, implementation of the software etc. This was my first real taste of the construction industry and working with individuals who were building their own homes was so rewarding. After a few more months I started to take an interest in where the sizes for members were coming from, why the building didn’t fall over etc so started to review calcs and found that I actually understood them (number/coding work form my programming degree helped I guess). I realised that for me designing software wasn’t enough. Soon (about 3 months) after that I joined a large engineering consultancy on the back of my modelling skills as a CAD technician with the promise of the company putting me through a BSc (Hons) Civil Engineering. I thought about quitting it several times as I found it difficult and only really enjoyed the structural part, however I stuck in and graduated last year. I now spend a large amount of my time working with advance software (customising and developing as well as designing) within the structural engineering industry (still with the same company). What I have found is that because I have a good understanding of both the software and a sound knowledge with the principals of engineering that my skills are very valuable to the company (I tend to do all the analysis, provide support, problem solving etc). I have managed to find a niche in the market that I am really happy with, granted I never got to be an animator in the gaming industry but I still get that satisfaction aspect from modelling buildings. I’m paid well for someone with a low level of engineering experience and the potential to progress up the ladder quickly are solid. I get to make use of the things that I have studied so hard for too. What I would suggest is that to do not leave uni until you have some form of qualification (would it not be a horrible waste of two years?) but in the mean time take an approved course in programming. They way things are developing within the civil industry (BIM, 3D, 4d, 5D) someone with your skill set will be highly valued. You may end up working in the civil engineering industry but there are several arms you could specialise in (like I). If you want to chat more drop me a message here. Good luck no matter what you want to do but remember a couple of years is only a short time in the grand scheme of your life.

 

[gunturs]

Hello pra713,

Just wanted to agree with what ISCK and Ozy001 said. If you are having second thoughts, it's probably better to take a step back and see the bigger picture. Someone said: find something you enjoy doing and you'd never have to work a single day in your life.

I'd make a list and go over what makes you want to continue studying civil and what makes you not want to. If you don't want to go on with Civil, what are the alternatives? If you still can't decide, take a semester off and intern in a civil engineering company to see if you like the work there. Better lose a semester and see than waste years of your life before you realize what you want to do.

I myself got my BSc. in Civil Engineering, and due to scholarship/teaching assistantship offers I went straight with Masters in Structural Engineering. I used to (and still) playing games and was exposed to programming and coding even from highschool. To make story short, my second-to-last job involved designing power plant structures e.g. ducts, supports, foundations, plate elements. Back then, a lot of independent/non-crucial structures were still being calculated manually and/or by manual programs (i.e. input the numbers into MathCAD and check all the steps, modifying as needed). After some months of doing the calculation "the regular way", I decided to take into my own hands and made my own MathCAD subroutine to automate the calculation and design process. Needless to say that cut down a lot of our process times and made our turnaround way shorter.

That was when I realized that having exposure to programming actually complement my education pretty well. Someone said also (pardon my goldfish memory) - that everything that happened to us up until now prepares us exactly for what we're about to face.

Good luck!

 

[BE0GRAD]

Hello, Ozy001

I can somehow relate with your case because I'd like my career to be a mix of CE and programming too ,though my case is the opposite of yours as contrary to you who are a programmer specializing in CE I'm a CE willing to specialize in programming so I'd like to have your advice on how to do so, as I'm not sure what to do exactly. What programming languages should I learn (I already know Pascal, C++, Wolfram Mathematica and learning Java) and what should I do to become a developer of some engineering software? What are the requirements of such companies?

Thanks in advance.