Behold... the new Tesla Convertible! 10

[Spartan5]

The Tesla requires a hand on the steering wheel - doesn't seem to have helped. The guy in the incident a couple years ago had his hand on the wheel, but was watching video (a movie, if I remember correctly).

In this most recent case, the hands were not on the wheel for at least 8 of the ten seconds from the time Autopilot was activated until it drove itself under the semi. In the previous decapitation case, Autopilot was engaged for 37 minutes while the driver had his hands on the wheel for all of 25 seconds!

In an accident in May of last year, the driver had her hands off of the wheel for minutes at a time before the Tesla drove 60 MPH straight into the back of a fire truck that was stopped at a red light:

https://www.apnews.com/9f1d761cf98b402dacd59ca18c333194

The manual says that "the system should only have been used on highways with clear lane markings, strict medians, and exit and entrance ramps." This is something that could easily be enforced by the GPS system at a minimum.

 

[BridgeSmith]

I apparently was misinformed about the Tesla's hand-on-the-wheel requirements. Thanks for the correction, Spartan5.

 

[VEBill]

Well, having perfected self-driving cars, they're now moving on with self-driving satellites.

 

[IRstuff]

At least, there aren't painted lane markings to lead them astray up there

TTFN (ta ta for now)
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[itsmoked]

Seems the error is all in the radar details. Every single satellite should be GPS'd and be required to update a public database every x seconds or minutes so running intercepts can be reasonably continuously calculated. Done right you could do nothing unless a sub meter intercept is discovered.

And the launch is going for today!

[!]The launch window opens at 10:30 p.m. EDT on May 23, or 2:30 UTC on May 24, and closes at 12:00 a.m. on May 24, or 4:00 UTC. A backup launch window opens on Friday, May 24 at 10:30 p.m. EDT, or 2:30 UTC on May 25, and closes at 12:00 a.m. on May 25, or 4:00 UTC. Falcon 9’s first stage for this mission previously supported the Telstar 18 VANTAGE mission in September 2018 and the Iridium-8 mission in January 2019. Following stage separation, SpaceX will attempt to land Falcon 9’s first stage on the “Of Course I Still Love You” droneship, which will be stationed in the Atlantic Ocean. Approximately one hour and two minutes after liftoff, the Starlink satellites will begin deployment at an altitude of 440km. They will then use onboard propulsion to reach an operational altitude of 550km.

You can watch the launch live below, starting about 15 minutes before liftoff, and find out more about the mission in our pr[/!]

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[dgallup]

Consumer Reports: Tesla's New Autopilot Update Worse than Human Driver

https://interestingengineering.com/...-new-autopilot-update-worse-than-human-driver

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The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.

 

[HamburgerHelper]

Humans are terrible at monitoring automated task. After like 15 minutes, performance drops off drastically. It is like the designers are just ignoring how people work. I would expect even hands on the wheel, reaction times would be equal or worse than someone texting while driving. What is even the point of having autopilot if you have to keep your hands on the wheel?

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If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.

 

[dgallup]

What is even the point of having autopilot if you have to keep your hands on the wheel?

Sell cars to the masses who don't know better.

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The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.

 

[IRstuff]

What is even the point of having autopilot if you have to keep your hands on the wheel?

Because it's a driving assistant; not unlike the acoustic collision sensors and ABS cars have now, or even power steering and brakes, for that matter.

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[BridgeSmith]

"What is even the point of having autopilot if you have to keep your hands on the wheel?"

As with any other feature/gadget/gimmick, it's there to get people to pay more to buy the car instead of a cheaper competitor's car. In this case, there may be the added 'Elon Musk ego' factor contributing, as well, which could be the more dominant factor in the equation.

In order for it to serve the first function, it has to be a feature that buyers want (or think they want), so it had to be marketed as a capable of driving itself without 'supervision', even though it wasn't actually capable of doing so.

You state very well the danger with vehicles utilizing SAE's automation levels 2 through 4. Nobody wants to be, and almost no one is capable of, babysitting an autonomous vehicle while it's driving, being ready at an instant's notice to keep the car from doing something stupid and lethal.

 

[LionelHutz]

Because it's a driving assistant; not unlike the acoustic collision sensors and ABS cars have now, or even power steering and brakes, for that matter.

Once the car is doing the driving (very loosely speaking) then doesn't the driver behind the wheel become the assistant?

 

[BridgeSmith]

No, it's completely different. Autopilot does not assist the driver; it takes over the duties of the driver. Not sure about the collision sensors you mentioned, but ABS, PS and PB require action by the driver to engage.

One could argue that autonomous emergency braking is analogous to the active steering, but it doesn't take over any of the normal driving tasks from the person behind the wheel. It mitigates the effects of driver inattention, rather than being a contributing factor to it.

 

[IRstuff]

Autopilot does not assist the driver

https://www.tesla.com/autopilot[/URL]]Autopilot advanced safety and convenience features are designed to assist you with the most burdensome parts of driving. Autopilot introduces new features and improves existing functionality to make your Tesla safer and more capable over time. ... Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous.

Obviously, Tesla's sales people and customers possibly say and think differently.

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[VEBill]

Collision Avoidance and similar automated systems that monitor the local environment and assist or warn the human driver, or even take evasive action (braking and steering, with some intelligence to minimize other negative outcomes), are essentially nothing but positive.

But flipping it over, where a fundamentally flawed and inherently limited automated driving system assumes human oversight, that's simply a dumb mistake at the basic conceptual level.

Self-driving cars will soon supplant Russian dash cams as a primary source of YouTube car crash fodder.

And if they ever do achieve the level of Strong A.I. necessary for safe self-driving cars, it'll have significant applications way beyond self-driving cars.

 

[BridgeSmith]

"Obviously, Tesla's sales people and customers possibly say and think differently."

Customers? What part of that quote was from a customer? Of course the company line, at least officially, is that it's "designed to assist" and "features require active driver supervision". In reality, it doesn't "require" driver supervision; it apparently only requires a hand on the steering wheel to engage the system, then requires nothing for it to stay engaged until it runs under a truck or something.

 

[IRstuff]

At least 4 dead ones and an unknown number of lucky ones think they bought a self-driving car.

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[BridgeSmith]

At least 4 dead ones and an unknown number of lucky ones think they bought a self-driving car.

I think that was my point - the 'official' company line is what you quoted, but the customers were led to believe differently. Why? Because if Tesla marketed them fully disclosing the limitations of the system, and what the human behind the wheel was expected to do, nobody would buy the car, or at least wouldn't pay extra for a feature that, if used properly, makes driving more tedious than normal.

 

[HamburgerHelper]

IRstuff,

It self drove. Just directly into a truck trailer.

I don't think we will have cars that can drive themselves well for awhile. What does it say when the controls for the 737 Max can't be put together correctly and that is a much more controlled environment?


Honestly, I think that the real solution is having all the cars talk to each other to make driving decisions. That is a much easier problem to tackle than trying to make each individual car capable of understanding of what is going on around it.

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If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.

 

[IRstuff]

It self drove. Just directly into a truck trailer.

I could do that with cruise control; what does that prove? It's basically a line following robot, not unlike the ones my kids played with at Legoland, so if the line goes into the ocean, it merrily complies. People have demonstrated equal stupidity; the first Apple Maps did, in fact, result in people driving into the ocean or onto railroad tracks.

I would think the survivors, or some hungry lawyers would have already jumped on the possibility that the drivers were misled by Tesla sales people for a wrongful death suit; the possible payout would be staggering and tempting.

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[Spartan5]

I would think the survivors, or some hungry lawyers would have already jumped on the possibility that the drivers were misled by Tesla sales people for a wrongful death suit; the possible payout would be staggering and tempting.

Who's to say they haven't or that Tesla hasn't quietly compensated them?

Lawsuit charges Tesla of misleading consumers about safety of its Autopilot feature
Tesla Sued By Family Of Silicon Valley Driver Killed In Model X Autopilot Crash
Tesla autopilot called ‘dangerously defective’ in lawsuit by driver