Benefits 3

[samv]

Hi all,

I am frustrated today because my boss anounced that we had to replace snow days in 4 hour chunks or use personal/vacation to make up for the lost time.

We live Canada, and I have to drive 35km to get into work. There are probably about 5 work days a year during winter when a person should simply not be on the road.

We only have 3 personal days for the entire year to begin with, so I had always given back my time lost to snow storms in small increments of an hour or so to make it less painful - his argument is that this is difficult to track and is from now on unacceptable.

I was wondering how other companies dealt with the issue of missed days due to snow storms (or other forms of dangerous driving conditions due to weather)?

I wish they would simply close the plant. 75% of us opted not to come in Monday - it was truly a blizzard, and yet the plant remained open.

samv

 

[rhodie]

1. It may be a blizzard where the plant is, but the customer has beautiful weather and needs your product!

2. There are a million Chinese people that are willing to tread the Yalu at flood stage to come to work for their $3.00/day. Your company's management and shareholders know this. So they work to keep their jobs.

3. Greed defies logic; Logic such as that nobody should try to go to work in a blizzard.

4. Lost production time cripples cashflow, and there is never, never, never enough cash to begin with.

 

[ScottyUK]

I understand how you feel, but you choose where you live and where you work.

I used to drive 55 miles to work, and 55 miles back, so I could live where I wanted. UK petrol prices and 40,000 miles p.a., along with driving in lousy weather on indifferent roads, put paid to that. Now I live some 12 miles away from the plant, so it is more practical from all aspects. I am an engineer at a power station - it is part of my job to be able to get to the plant when needed; we can't shut down, bad weather or otherwise.

If you don't like the long drive in, move closer or find another job! I chose the former option.



----------------------------------

If we learn from our mistakes,
I'm getting a great education!

 

[casseopeia]

samy,
Where I work those of us who go 'out into the field' are offered comp time. We fequently have to begin our day 2 to 3 hours earlier than our usual start time of 8 am, so we can chose to leave earlier (usually not possible) or take that time off on another day as long as it is in the same 30-day billing cycle.

BTW, we have a surprisingly high percentage of Canadians working for us here in the San Francisco Bay area. They only occasionaly get nostalgic about snow!

 

[buzzp]

Most companies say tough but I had one private company that would close up shop and send you home, paid.
Government, of course, sends you home paid or tells you not to come in.
Your companies policies are normal.

 

[DRWeig]

Hey there Samv,

Your policy is pretty normal. The folks who live far from my place who typically don't come in on icy days are docked vacation time. We're open come heck or high water, so they shouldn't get extra time off because of where they live. It wouldn't be fair to the rest of us who make it in to work.

I suggest you move closer to work!

Best to ya,

Old Dave

 

[samv]

Thanks for your input everyone. I guess I don't have any more reason to resent the new rule

we have already moved as close as we felt was practical for us and reasonable for resale value - the company is in a rural region, we stuck to a touristy kind of town so i guess i'll just have to roll up my sleeves and work the extra four hour chunks.

My particular responsibilities do not require that I be there 8-430, which is why I have a hard time accepting the rigid timecard approach. seems unreasonable and unecessary to me

maybe I should start applying for a government position... thing is there will be a major move involved in order for me to get one of these. To a city much larger than what we had hoped to raise the family in........ so. again the conclusion: I guess I'll just roll up my sleeves and work these four hour chunks!!

 

[plasgears]

A long time ago during a Chicago blizzard, I had to stay home; the roads were bad. The top boss said that I had to move closer. I was the facility mgr, and I had to be there.

The company did not pay moving expense, but I went ahead and put the first house up for sale, got a swing loan, and bought house no. 2 closer. The blizzard season did nothing to help sell house no. 1. I was quickly sinking into a financial whirlpool. Finally I decided to change jobs.

I left my old job and wrote a threatening letter to the CEO. He responded with an offer to pay all interest expenses. When the smoke cleared, I was out only a few hundred for moving exp.

Changing jobs sometimes is easier than selling a house.

 

[EngJW]

I assume you are talking about a salaried position, or "exempt" as it is called in the States.

For years I lived in Buffalo and worked for 4 different companies. Then I moved South and worked for 2 different companies. In Buffalo we had a few snow days off. Here, it could be a hurricane, ice storm, or just a few snow flurries that will shut everything down.

However, in not one case did a company require us to make up the time. Of course, we would not be paid for any overtime put in.

Sounds like a lousy management to me.

 

[buzzp]

You'd be surprised where government jobs can take you. I live in real rural part of the US in a small city (120,000). I know of engineering government jobs where you could be in a town of 500. Don't rule out governement work based on city locations.
It is difficult to move to government work from the private industry. Things move slow. Not sure I like it yet but I do like the 13 sick days a year with the 13 vacation days a year, oh and lets not forget the 40 hrs of 'family friendly leave', along with comp time, flex time, etc. Health benefits are spendy. After 3 years leave times go to 20 days/yr for leave and 20 for sick. The leave is great but the work is not so desirable if you like moving quick. Thats where I have trouble. That and watching all the slackers around you making the same amount of money.

 

[EngJW]

Know what you mean. My wife works for the state and the pay is really low, but she has lots of time off and we get health insurance that carried us through a long layoff. She comes home every day with war stories about the waste and slackers.

 

[Rich2001]

If you are in the USA check the departe of labor website on fairpay. Reducing vacation time or requiring an exempt (salary) professional to make up lost time may be illegal.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/fairpay/fs17g_salary.htm

 

[TrevorP]

Come on you guys, and give him a break! He's not saying he doesn't want to make up these hours, just that he doesn't want to do it in four hour chunks. We all have to get a fair balance between home life and work life, and it's not like he's choosing to take the day off work, just because he feels like it.
The management are saying they don't know if he's making up these hours or not. That's just crass. I'm sure they'd soon know if he worked an hour less every day. Like most engineers he probably works more hours than in his contract without pay, anyway. If he is required to work come rain or shine (or snow), so be it, but it doesn't sound like he does.
What good does it do the management if he has a road accident on blizzard day and have to take 3 months off work due to injury?
Unless it's a small company with a dogmatic owner, I would expect there to be some room for negotiation here, even if it means going to a timecard system so that his boss knows when people are there.
If there's no flexibility on the management side, how can they expect some flexibility on the worker side, for example to meet an order with a tight deadline?

 

[ewh]

Rich2001,

I just went over this issue where I work, and my understanding is that if you are salaried and work any portion of the week, your employer must pay you for the entire week. However, they can take that pay from any vacation time accrued. If you have no vacation time available, they still have to pay you, but may leave you with a negative vacation balance. They must give you the choice of using vacation time or time off without pay.

 

[JoeTank]

I have worked for four companies over last 31 years. Two were steel plate fabrication firms, two were consulting firms. Lost days due to weather were just lost days. No deduction from vacation or docking of pay or making up time. All were salaried (exempt) positions and in the USA. Regardless of company policy, we all had deadlines (our clients are not always affected by the snow days, you know) so, sometimes we just assumed the personal responsibility to maintain the schedule. That sometimes required a bit of OT or taking work home. I have never understood that a work week was LIMITED to 40 hours. A small component of OT is part of the engineering work. It goes with the territory. I have never minded the OT, but if it was mandated that the snow day be made up in 4 hour chunks, I guess I would be offended.

Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[samv]

good news! - the boss will accept a slightly more flexible approach. He's approved some work from home time - as long as he knows exactly what it is that I'm doing from home, preferably something I can SHOW him when I get back. Sounds like 4hrs chunks can be broken down some too... official negotiations yet to come. so I can work with that. we've had two more storms since I first wrote - this last one was so bad it ripped shingles off my roof. It's been a rough week weather wise - by far the worst this winter, and likely the worse is over unless mother nature has some more surprises in store for Feb and March.

BTW - we do punch in and out when we come in, it's just a matter of keeping track of the hours above and below 40 that they don't want to do... and yes it is a salaried position believe it or not! but I'm not complaining today - I'm pleased

 

[Ron]

samv...8:00-4:30?? Sounds pretty cushy to me. If you think like a para-professional employee, that's how you'll be treated. Engineering is a profession...that requires dedication and extra effort. As SteveBraune noted, we do not limit our employees to 40 hours per week, either. And no, the engineers do not get paid "overtime". We also don't question their dedication when they decide to go home early some afternoon. Give and Take.

 

[EOIT]

Seems to me with the "punch card" that you have to use, documenting all your overtime would be quite simple and maybe you could offer to keep track of it for them instead. That coupled with the work at home should be able to appease that management and allow you to spend some time with the family. Sorry to hear about your roof though, hope it isn't leaking.