Better to Change Jobs Every Few Years? 9

[Christine74]

Someone once told me that their "rule of thumb" was that an engineer should not stay in the same job at the same company for more than five years, especially if it is early in his or her career. The reason being that it is important for an engineer to get the most learning out of their work experience, and this is much more easily accomplished if you switch jobs every few years.

What do you think?

Thanks,

-Christine

 

[Heckler]

I don't think there really is a rule of thumb with regards to gaining knowledge or leaving jobs. I did the job jump for the first six years of my career which was considered status quo in Sillyicon Valley. My salary increased with every move and I did gain a vast range of experience. One of the main reasons for the job jumping was I worked for start-up companies that were extremely fluid (here one day gone the next). I think if my first job out of school was with a GE, GM or someother mega-company I most likely would still be there today. One thing that I lacked was the depth which comes with working a specific technology for twenty years.

 

[metengr]

I would agree with Heckler. In fact, in the first line of your post you state that it was their "rule of thumb". Here is a little different perspective:

IMO, there is no recommended guidance for changing jobs because there are just too many variables. As Heckler had mentioned, I am one of the few engineers that has remained in a particular (Electric Power Generation) industry for over 20 years. Basically, I had changed jobs only once and that happened because the division I was employed with was sold to a different company (also an Electric Power Producer).

I was fortunate to have remained working for the same company for the first 17 years of my career before the change in ownership. During this time I had built up a retirement benefit (pension) and a nice chuck of change in my 401K. Most engineers that hire into the utility business remain there because of the challenges in maintaining equipment reliability, benefits and job stability.

If I had to start over, I still would remain with large company and work in the Electric Power Generation business. I am not against changing jobs because you can find tremendous opportunity in career advancement.

 

[ScottyUK]

I moved about a bit in my first few years:

- I've worked in a small start-up where I learned greatly about the 'other' aspects of running a business

- I've worked in manufacturing, and I don't want to go back there. In the UK it is sadly a dying industry

- I've been with an engineering consultancy where I had the chance to learn from some of the really gifted people who will shortly retire and take their knowledge with them because there is no-one for them to pass on their knowledge to

- I've lived out of a suitcase for over a year, and that sucks after a while

- I've been in powergen for over six years now. Its a good industry to be in at present: I've got a relatively secure position and I'm one of a dwindling number of power engineers in the UK so there is increasingly healthy competition among recruiters.

If you find your perfect job first time then you are fortunate. In my opinion the job moves allow you find your strengths and weaknesses and your likes and dislikes. The smaller companies expose you to the business side - puchasing, despatch, invoicing, accounts, sales, etc - far more than a large multi will ever do. The larger companies have much greater breadth and depth of knowledge in their staff for you to learn from, and normally have far better resources in terms of labs, test facilities, equipment, etc. If you are intending to become professionally registered it is easier with the big employers who often have a mentored scheme.


----------------------------------

If we learn from our mistakes,
I'm getting a great education!

 

[jmw]

All good and laudable reasons for changing jobs, though to be honest this is a feature of todays world and not the past where employees stayed with a company "man and boy".

However, one really good reason to change jobs is because it is the best way to be assured that you stay ahead in the salary stakes. All too often it is long term employees who discover that their annual "cost of living increase" has meant that over the years they have fallen further and further behind the benchmark for their skills or missed out on promotions.


HR look at market trends and look at average turnover rates for different skills. They pay accordingly and balance the risk of lower pay against the fact that one day you may leave and cost them a fortune to replace you, probably with someone at an entry salary higher than your salary at leaving.

There are lots of reasons why we stay in one job for a long time, kids in school, relocation, we like what we are doing, we are loyal to the company (a one way street) but often we pay a price.

Don't forget also that, depending on where you work, the pensions have changed. In some countries pensions are "portable".
It used to be that anchored you to one employer.
We also see, in some countries, that final salary schemes are going and being replaced by money funds.
That being so and factoring in inflation, when you look at the benefits you accrue based on the early years, they aren't worth squat.

But however you look at it you need to keep your salary as high as you can by whatever means not just for now but your retirement.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[IRstuff]

The counter-side is that someone who has moved every one to two yrs can be perceived as being unstable or a potential problem. Those guys, we chuck into the round file without a second glance.

Any time, close to that, like 2 to 3 yrs, is a red-flag and is placed at the end of the line. One problem with short turn-over is that the engineer, while potentially getting more varied experience, may not have stayed long enough at a given job to see and solve the problems developed in his design after going into production.

Of course, there is an absurd classic example of this in the Space Station. There are people who have spent their entire working careers on the Space Station without seeing actual hardware fielded.

TTFN

 

[haggis]

Christine74

There is no rule of thumb that applies as there are many reasons for staying with a company for one's entire career and there are also lots of reasons for moving on now and then. Unless you are lucky and find your niche early, moving around in the first few years is normal whether you want to or not. I've been 28 years out of 48 where I am and as a result, have gained great in depth knowledge of the operations of a large car assembly plant and it's amazing how your name gets dropped here and there. I've had unexpected boondoggles throughout the U.S. to plants within the corporation on troubleshooting/problem solving issues. The best ones I've had were to Van Nuys and Fremont, California. The one thing you have to watch for is that if you stay put, that your next 30 years experience is not 1 year experience 30 times over.

 

[MadMango]

Haggis, Van Nuys is now closed. Within a few months, there will be no indication that GM was ever here.

[green]"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."[/green]
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[Sparweb]

I've been offered 3 positions since starting my current job. I've turned them all down. The money was better, but all the others lacked one thing or another. I have not "levelled off" my learning curve, either, after 6 years.


Steven Fahey, CET

 

[SolderingGunslinger]

To often we fall into the trap of thinking that money is everything. Furthermore, we are hooked on instant gratification. I would gladly accept a position which was intellectually stimulating and secure but perhaps didn't offer a fast trip up the corporate ladder. as with most things, there are some exceptions.

1) I am not interested in working for a "Family Business" As they say, "Nepotism is a fine old family tradition." however that means that the child or sibling usually gets any promotion. The same goes for working for a family member. In that case, it takes a death in the family to get a promotion.

2) At this time in my life, I am not interested in a company which works from government contract to government contract. I am not opposed morally or otherwise to working on weapons systems, I am opposed to having my job eliminated because the legislative branch decides not to fund the production of the gizmo.

If the wage I earn allows me to live comfortably, feed, clothe, educate and house my family, save some for retirement and have some extra to take my wife out on a date every once in a while, I am a happy camper.

If I work in a safe enjoyable environment and look forward to going to work the next day and come out feeling that I not only have accomplished something, but have perhaps learned something at the same time, life is good.

If the people for whom I work genuinely appreciate all that I do and let me know that my work is appreciated, I have a wonderful job.

I have been offered jobs where the managment threw money at the employees, but treated them like dirt. I have held jobs where the employee was treated like royalty (Hmmm...considering some of the London tabloids, perhaps that isn't a good simile) but didn't have a good compensation package. As with most things in life, the best position is someplace in the middle.

Right now, I have a position where I am appreciated, where the perqs (benefits) are better than the cash compensation and where there is really good job security. Sure, I could go elsewhere and make more cash, but there is a lot to be said about stability and good benefits.

In the end, we must all find a balance of stability, compensation and stress. Different strokes for different folks.

May we all find the balance best suited for each of our situations.

I remain,

The Old Soldering Gunslinger

 

[haggis]

MadMango

I know. So is the old truck plant in South Gate. When they closed Van Nuys, the production of the Camaro and Firebird was moved to Ste.Therese, Quebec. Now its gone along with that car line. Pity! There was also a typo in my previous reply to Christine74. That should have been 28 out of 38 years, not 48! Although I have worked for a total of 43 years.

 

[PSE]

Moving about every 5 years or so may not be a rule of thumb but it may be an average. I have moved to different companies and positions based upon my how my career and personal life evolved. If my professional/personal goals no longer meshed with my employer, I began looking elsewhere. I believe that likely to be the case for all the respondents.

Early on in your career you are exploring what really interests you on the job. As you find out, you may need to move on in order to follow those interests. If you are risk adverse, you might look for a large corporation that has potential to offer stability. If not, startups can be attractive or even your own business.

Regards,

 

[amorrison]

Initiate job change to a desired firm when the economy (ie. jobs available)is good. There will not be as much competition for the desired firm's jobs.

If you quit or are turfed out (your "poor attitude" or the company dies) during an "economic slowdown" you might be looking for work for a loooong time (lots of job competition)- not good for your career.

 

[HVAC68]

In 15 years, I have changed 6 jobs and the longest was 6.5 years (incidentally the first).

I agree - there's no rule of thumb for changing jobs or intervals at which one should change. It all boils down to job satisfaction, family priorities, $$$$$, future career growth, etc.

The place at which I work now is probably not the best in terms of career growth, but gives me a lot of other things like stability, good educational opportunities for my children, more time to spend with my family, lesser travel, lesser pressure of work, more opportunities to learn, etc., etc.

It's a question of priorities and compromises one has to make at different points of ones life that drives the need to change jobs - also, there are sometimes when one is forced to change jobs due to other reasons like retrenchment or such instances.

HVAC68

 

[mshimko]

No Rule Of Thumb.

I have heard the "average tenure" for engineers is ~7 years. This DOES NOT imply a rule-of-thumb.

I think you stay, or move on based on what seems best for you and your future, thinking long term. Will you learn more staying where you are or by moving on?

While money isn't everything, it IS and important thing, even as a manager, I don't like the FACT that we may pay people who are seeking other employment more than those who appear more "loyal", all else being equal. Hence, you may occasionally need to at least look around and consider moving on to get the "appropriate" salary.

However, if I see a trend of short-term employment in a resume, I will probably just toss it.

 

[NickE]

"However, one really good reason to change jobs is because it is the best way to be assured that you stay ahead in the salary stakes. All too often it is long term employees who discover that their annual "cost of living increase" has meant that over the years they have fallen further and further behind the benchmark for their skills or missed out on promotions."

It's too bad that is so true. What is worse though is starting low cause you need the job, enjoying the work immensely, thinking that HR will actually reecommend that your pay increase be commensurate with your duties, experience, education, then watching your "real" wage drop compared to expenses.

 

[TrevorP]

I've changed my job every 3 years almost exactly. However, I've only changed company once in 12 years. Not all changes have been at my request. The point is to keep learning and not to stagnate. I find it's been typically 1 year to learn the job, 1 year to improve the job, and 1 year to do the job. Not that it's a rule to follow, just that it's the way it seems to have worked out. If you can still be learning after 6 years (as per Sparweb), and enjoying your job, I would suspect that the job is continually evolving or changing so that it always requires new demands and skills to be learnt. If you're lucky enough to have such a job then there's no need to change at all.
My next job change is likely to be at the same desk, on the same salary, and with a similar level of responsibility.

 

[amorrison]

I would like to ditto TrevorP for consulting engineering.

I was told that the first year the company is loosing money on you, the second year they are breaking even and the third year you make back the money they lost on you the first year. So if you quit before three years they have lost money on you.