Boeing again pt2. 16

[Alistair_Heaton]

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=515237

first thread

 

[DirteJoe]

Pencil whipping inspectors/supervisors.

 

[3DDave]

So Spirit is another company the FAA let run riot?

Another 350, or so, will be killed in the US general aviation operations this year.

Maybe the FAA needs to get out of their cubicals from time to time and actually do some work.

 

[debodine]

Quote from 3DDave (who I agree with)

"So Spirit is another company the FAA let run riot?

Another 350, or so, will be killed in the US general aviation operations this year.

Maybe the FAA needs to get out of their cubicals from time to time and actually do some work."

I think the FAA is too busy trying to fill the cubes with DEI, and if you are a DEI hire, you can work or not work as you see fit. No accountability for DEI hires or the fools at the top who hire them.

 

[3DDave]

The reason DEI is so popular is that they need to expand their reach to communities they previously turned down for not being the right kind. Let's face it, the current non-DEI hires are the ones who f'd this up.

 

[TugboatEng]

In other words, if you think it's bad now just wait.

 

[dik]

I'm afraid you're right, Tug.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

All caa are being starved of resources and talent.

And even if they did have the resources, therr is growing numbers of the talent that won't work for regulators anyway for any price.

 

[3DDave]

"In other words, if you think it's bad now just wait."

Not my words. Those remind me of what was said about lunch counters and water fountains and bus seats. Can't let them in because they don't belong.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimosm...-hike-is-a-game-changer-for-us-labor-markets/

Here or the inflation thread in the pub?

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

what is "Barry and his pen"

We have talked about the MEL which is minimum equipment list.

Basically all aircraft have defects and there is a list you can still fly with and time limits. If its really safety critical it's no dispatch.

When a defect is entered in the tech log and it's deferred and the time runs out, certain people will sign it saying tested SATIS released to service which then restarts the timer for getting the defect fixed.

There are certain defects which will only show when in flight. Again the aircraft is released as tested with pax onboard instead of a permit to fly issued by the OEM and CAA none public transport.

There are various ploys put into play. Pilots join in as well.

It's one of the marks of a good airline to work for in my book when it's deemed unacceptable by the CEO. It's worth dealing with other issues and less pay.

For all the other faults of ryanair they run this clean tech log and get it fixed asap policy due to Michael O'Leary

 

[3DDave]

No one talks about many CEOs pay inflating by 1000% or more and I certainly would not expect the magazine that CEOs take as self-congratulatory to do so either. That 35% is likely not as much as inflation since the last contract and that doesn't even include the last couple of years worth. Apparently part of the deal is the elimination of bonuses that are paid when the company profits go up; great plan to take away the direct reward for a job well done.

"From 1978 to 2020, CEO pay based on realized compensation grew by 1,322%, far outstripping S&P stock market growth (817%) and top 0.1% earnings growth (which was 341% between 1978 and 2019, the latest data available). In contrast, compensation of the typical worker grew by just 18.0% from 1978 to 2020."

Eat dirt payroll worms. Your CEO needs another new 450 foot yacht.

One large amount of feedback in the US economy is forcing the typical worker to invest directly for retirement instead of having a defined benefit pension. This inflationary level of cash dumped directly into stocks and real-estate by low-leverage buyers means that the CEOs are getting more money by squeezing workers on both pay and forcing them where the big fish gulp them like minnows.

Enron did so quite directly - forcing their employee's 401k's to be in Enron stock, which was used to goose the price and then the C-suite sold their holdings for profit. Recall that Enron stock performed amazingly well due to this inflationary extortion.

I'll be the Forbes guys will say if the minimum wage goes up a dollar, then burger prices will double. However the minimum wages didn't go up and the burger prices still doubled, and the CEOs did better than that.

 

[Brian Malone]

Yes, 3DDave the compensation at the executive level generally is never discussed with company performance and balance sheet and the wage and staffing cuts are always done within the working staff. The CEO and board of directors proclaim the executive staff have to make the tough choices that is why their compensation is so outsized to the workers. Certainly Boeing's woes are cumulative to many factors - muddled processes, poor communication within and across departments, jumbled quality systems across major subcontractors/suppliers, poor business decisions by men (many with engineering degrees) who were industry insiders and long-term Boeing/McD employees (non-DEI), and bad luck with major accidents that carried an enormous public/governmental response (that you have made very clear explanations that the response or non-respnonse of the flight crews sealed the fate of the doomed flights). The Starliner issues have not been figured out. I will be surprised if any direct DEI factor is involved- just poor implementation or poor design and design follow-up. Could the Starliner failures have shades of the Morton Thoikol/Hercules/USBI tangle NASA spawned with actively courting a second source for the Space Shuttle SRBs?

 

[IRstuff]

Few, if any, CEOs ever really get graded on DEI, because they ALL get graded on profits, and no CEO is going to survive by giving up share value. The reality is that corporate governance had changed for the worse by focusing on profits and share values well before most of the people harping about DEI were even born. Boeing outsourced manufacturing more than 40 years ago, when every company involved was filled with white-shirted, white guys. If you really want to blame someone, blame the white guys at the top that only cared about their bonuses and golden parachutes, because their bonuses have always been about share value, and not DEI.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[Eufalconimorph]

DEI is just a politically correct way of saying "stop breaking the law, assholes".

It's illegal to discriminate in hiring for or against any protected class (including race & sex). Lots of companies, intentionally or not, were breaking this law. Either through illegal affirmative action (hiring minorities because of their minority status) or through more traditional biases against minorities. As with all other HR positions the major point of a "DEI officer" in a company is to protect the company from getting sued (in this case for hiring discrimination). DEI is just a term for "CYA" scoped to hiring practices around protected classes as defined by the civil rights act.

 

[SWComposites]

the basic DEI thing is fine, and needed.
the fact that it has turned into a giant DEI consultant grifter thing is not fine and giant waste.
from:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/16/magazine/dei-university-michigan.html

"Since 2016, the university (Univ of Michigan) has spent roughly a quarter of a billion dollars on the effort. .... By one count, the school has more D.E.I. staff members than any other large public university in the country." and yet it has accomplished very little, it anything.

 

[IRstuff]

the school has more D.E.I. staff members than any other large public university in the country." and yet it has accomplished very little, it anything.

Most likely because NONE of those DEI staff are in positions of power.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[TugboatEng]

Positions of power seems like the most likely place for DEI hires to land because their lack of qualification will have less of a direct impact.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

This all started before DEI

It was in the 1980's when airbus started with the A320.

The 737 size should have been clean sheeted then.

NG was shoehorned together to beat a change in certification.

And when the neo was being released they repeated the same mistakes they made in the 90's.

And they really messed up the design this time. So much so they risk the viability of the whole company.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

In Europe they are saying intel is on the ropes as well due to the same management issues.

 

[1503-44]

DEI is no system change. Before it was called "Affirmative Action".
That's been with us ever since at least the 70s. It is not responsible for any recent change in anyone's preseption of how things work, or don't work. It's a continuation of business as usual.

As for Upper management, I fail to see how grabbing all the cookies in the jar is a difficult decision. Most 2yr old are quite adept at that task. Difficult decisions come when told to ration the cookies fairly. Outside of very few exceptions, that seems to happen only at employee owned companies.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."