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BSME in email signature? 8

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kevindurette

kevindurette

Mechanical
May 4, 2008
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I work as an applications engineer and reverse engineer for a distributor, and many of our clients have little or no college education. The term "engineer" seems to be loosely tossed around by people all over this industry. I did not take my FE exam, though, so I cannot call myself an EIT. Would it be appropriate to put BSME at the end of my name in my email signature? It doesn't seem to be a title that people often brag about; I'm sure my bachelor's degree required only a fraction of the work it must take to earn a doctorate's degree. It might clear up questions of credibility with customers with whom I have not yet dealt, however. I don't want to come off as arrogant either, though. What do you think?
 
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Personally, I would not do it either. I feel that the respect you are looking for will come as you earn it.

Telling people that you deserve it with BSME after your name will not make them believe it. Ther results your clients need will.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask
 
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If you have a lot of engineers (or almost any professional support staff like accountants, planners, programmers, etc.) working in your company in many different fields, it's taken for granted that you have a BS. Or higher. Don't make yourself looking like your grasping for any attention you can get by advertising you only have a BSME.

I would not put any degree on a business card other than PhD or Doctor of Engineering.

On the other hand, if your company does have many divisions (electrical, controls, piping, fluid flow, programming, mechanical design, construction, steel, civil, or whatever) then adding a simple "Mechanical Engineering" DOES help separate you from the other departments and areas and DOES give the reader a quick summary of what you're field you are ready to help him in.
 
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bvanheil...the "industrial" exemption does not extend to the use of the protected terms, if used in the public realm. While you might not be required to be licensed, you also can't imply that you are...thus the protected terms.

CRG...interesting! He probably thought you were from the licensing board and he was about to get reamed!

SomptingGuy...thanks! That was my laugh for the day![shadeshappy]
 
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Florida laws would specifically allow the case I suggested above.

"Any person who is exempt from licensure under s. 471.003(2)(j) may use the title or personnel classification of "engineer" in the scope of his or her work under that exemption if the title does not include or connote the term "professional engineer," "registered engineer," "licensed engineer," "registered professional engineer," or "licensed professional engineer."

3. Any person who is exempt from licensure under s. 471.003(2)(c) or (e) may use the title or personnel classification of "engineer" in the scope of his or her work under that exemption if the title does not include or connote the term "professional engineer," "registered engineer," "licensed engineer," "registered professional engineer," or "licensed professional engineer" and if that person is a graduate from an approved engineering curriculum of 4 years or more in a school, college, or
university which has been approved by the board"

Cedar Bluff Engineering
 
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Photoengineer...yes, that's correct. You made it clearer than I. My point was that to use the term in the public realm rather than specific to an exempt employment, is misleading and that's what the licensing boards get upset about. Each state seems to treat it a bit differently, for instance:

The Georgia law states....[highlight](f) Any person offering services to the public who uses by name, verbal claim, sign, advertisement, directory listing, or letterhead the words "Engineer," "Engineers," "Professional
Engineering," "Engineering," or "Engineered" shall be guilty of a misdemeanor unless said person has complied with the provisions of this chapter.[/highlight]

As you noted in the Florida law, it also requires graduation from an approved 4-year curriculum. The intent, according to my conversations with the General Counsel for the Florida board, is to prevent the use of the term "engineer" to imply something the individual or company is not.

One blatant example here locally is a company that calls itself "Weather Engineers". They have no engineers on staff, they are not a licensed engineering business, and they practice in an area that clearly requires engineering licensing at certain levels for design (HVAC). They do HVAC servicing...a typical air conditioning repair company. The problem is that they use the term "Engineer" in their company, which to the general public, implies that they are something they are not and that they have expertise that the other HVAC servicing companies don't have.

My apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread!! Mea Culpa.
 
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Are they allowed to call themselves Weather Engineers?

I know a lot of Architects that don't have their licenses yet, are very good at saying what they can and cannot do.

1 of 3 partners at my company has their PE. I make sure to tell clients that I do not have my license yet. Would I put Partner or Owner in my email sig? Never.

CDG, Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
 
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What the ?%%# would a "weather engineer" do anyway, engineer the weather? Analyst, observer, predictor, monitor, pundit more like. An engineer would need to modify it. Maybe they fire chemicals into clouds.

- Steve
 
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Though I agree that putting the degree is tacky, I'm surprised by those who suggest just name and contact. Its common for me to look to the signature for a person's position within their company if I don't already know.

So, I'd suggest "Mechanical Engineer" or similar, depending on what your company calls you. I'm not in an industry which uses PE certification, so frankly everyone worked up over the legality issue sounds ridiculous to me. What, the janitor can be a sanitation engineer but the guy with an earned degree can't call himself an engineer because he hasn't gone the PE route? So long as you're not mis-representing yourself I see that as a non-issue.

Unfortunately, the "what your company calls you" part can be overly complicated. My company has umpteen engineering disciplines represented across many departments, but only about 5 actual HR titles for engineer. The title indicates your (supposed) level of experience/skill (and pay), but tells me nothing about what discipline or department you represent. This leads to a situation where about 2/3 of the employees list some variation of their department/specialty but the rest list their HR title. As interesting as I find your pay grade (Engineer III for example), it would be much more useful to know what you actually work on (Systems Engineering).

I think the same applies to your situation. List your discipline/department; not your degree.

On a related note, is there any way to change the field in parentheses after our EngTips handles?
 
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YoungTurk,

I like you comment "so frankly everyone worked up over the legality issue sounds ridiculous to me." There are more than a few PEs on here that appear to be short on engineering work to do.

I have my license but recognize that there are many many engineers more skilled than me that aren't licensed, and I don't go around telling them they aren't engineers (including most of my graduate professors at the University of Washington).

Cedar Bluff Engineering
 
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A non licensed architect can get in big trouble for calling themselves an Architect. Same applies for Engineer. Just engineer gets tossed freely by more everyday people.

Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
 
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I think the engineering boards should crack down on the sanitation engineers. How can we make a living with that kind of competition? There ought to be a law!
 
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Wasn't thinking about this one right at all, but there is a little more to the titles. Copied from the California Consumer Guide.
It is illegal for anyone to practice or offer to practice civil, electrical or mechanical engineering
or to use the title “Civil Engineer,” “Electrical Engineer,” “Mechanical Engineer,” “Geotechnical
Engineer,” “Soils Engineer,” or “Structural Engineer” in California unless he or she is currently
licensed as such by this Board.
Other engineering titles regulated by this Board include branch titles, which are not practiceregulated.
Anyone may practice these branches of engineering, but only engineers licensed by
the Board may use the branch title as a personal title or credential. Title licenses are obtained
through a process which includes demonstrating qualifications and experience to the Board.
The authority to use the following titles does not permit the person to practice civil, electrical
or mechanical engineering:
Agricultural Engineer
Chemical Engineer
Control Systems Engineer
Fire Protection Engineer
Industrial Engineer
Manufacturing Engineer
Metallurgical Engineer
Nuclear Engineer
Petroleum Engineer
Traffic Engineer
It is also against the law for anyone other than a professional engineer licensed by this Board to
use the titles “Professional Engineer,” “Registered Engineer,” “Licensed Engineer,” or
“Consulting Engineer.”

Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
 
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So, if you're doing engineering work in a non-exempt industry and are not a PE, what the heck are you supposed to call yourself? Engineering Practitioner? Engineering Analyst?
 
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Not sure what a "non-exempt industry" might be.

Note that the Calfornia PE Act, as cited above, also includes the following:

6747. Exemption for industries
(a) This chapter, except for those provisions that apply to civil engineers and civil engineering, shall not apply to the performance of engineering work by a manufacturing, mining, public utility, research and development, or other industrial corporation, or by employees of that corporation, provided that work is in connection with, or incidental to, the products, systems, or services of that corporation or its affiliates.
(b) For purposes of this section, “employees” also includes consultants, temporary employees, contract employees, and those persons hired pursuant to third-party contracts.

TTFN

FAQ731-376
 
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If I had a mechanical engineering degree, and wasn't talking to the public (newsmedia or people buying houses, for example) or the government officials that are issuing permits, I'd call myself a mechanical engineer.

If I was designing a product, I'd call myself a design engineer.

PEs that have a problem with that need to find a hobby or are in desperate need for more work.

Cedar Bluff Engineering
 
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I know this is a bigger deal with Architects, that's why they were my example. So now thinking about this more, who is the one telling on people?

Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
 
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photoengineer,
Your statement that
photoengineer said:
PEs that have a problem with that need to find a hobby or are in desperate need for more work
Click to expand...
is unacceptable. Those of us that are making those points are simply indicating that there could be a problem with it. None of us could care less what you call yourself. We keep bringing up the proscription on "holding yourself out to the public" as an engineer to try to help people avoid problems. You've said several times above that California doesn't have this proscription, but brandoncvg posted an extract of the California law that does in fact include the proscription.


I have known people who put the word "Engineer" on a business card that they gave to contacts in the public that had consequences (one guy gave his card to his kid's teacher, her husband turned the card in to the board in Texas and he was issued a "cease and desist" letter with threats of fines). The boards do not go after this violation, but have to act on complaints.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

"Life is nature's way of preserving meat" The Master on Dr. Who
 
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I find it amusing that engineers can be so vocal about the lack of respect they get compared to other professions, but are so resentful of the idea of being held to a similar standard of education and certification.

When I go to a place that's called "clinic" or "hospital", I expect those called "doctor" to be trained and licensed.
 
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