Bud Trinkel's Hydraulics books 4

[millwrightsteve]

Hey all,

I'm in search of copies of Bud Trinkel's hydraulics books "Fluid Power Circuits Explained" and "Hydraulic Troubleshooting"... We had copies of his books at my old company but I don't work for them anymore and nobody can find them. Bud has since passed away and I believe his books were available online for free but now the links are all dead on powermotiontech.com as they do not "own" them anymore after they were acquired. If anybody has copies they are willing to sell or share that would be greatly appreciated. His books were far superior to anything I've come across. I really hope somebody out there has a couple of these laying around.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[3DDave]

http://btpco.com/download/training/Bud trinkel/Fluid power Basics -Bud Trinkel.pdf

It's either a Farci or Arabic supplier. Don't know.

I haven't found the other ones. What a shame.

 

[PNachtwey]

I have two Bud Trinkel binders and his animated power points which are very good.
The problem I have with the books is that they will do anything to avoid using electronic control.
Maybe after a EMP strike this information will be useful if the HPU can be made to run.
Now it is easier/cheaper to use electronic control.

Peter Nachtwey
Delta Computer Systems

http://www.deltamotion.com

http://forum.deltamotion.com/

IFPS Hall of Fame Member

 

[millwrightsteve]

PNachtwey, Would you be able to share these with me? If you can scan them to a PDF or share them over my google drive? the animated circuits sound great -we did not have those. This is purely just for my own development. I'm maintaining a lot of old tired machinery that isn't electronically controlled and I used to lean on his books a lot because it was very digestible for us mechanics. A lot of the books I've bought are more geared toward engineers.

 

[3DDave]

I'm sure there are copyright problems with making copies - is there a publisher that can be contacted about who has the copyright?

A similar situation came up over a series of books by a sketch artist who had died some 20 years before - long out of print an artist scanned his copy of the main one and posted it on a website. The family immediately launched a legal action, just a take-down, but the comments piled up on how this was such a valuable book that the family was amazed. Artists reported long searches for copies held together by cellophane tape. For the family it was something their father did some 50 years before and they had no idea that anyone cared that much. So, many of them are reprinted for a reasonable price.

 

[millwrightsteve]

I don't believe any publisher owns the copyright to them -I get the feeling this stuff is lost forever or it seems that way. Hydraulics&Pneumatics had made 2 of them available on their website as free Ebooks, but had relinquished ownership of them before they were acquired so they are all dead links now. I contacted them about who to contact and they said the books would have been returned to Bud. I was recently in contact with Bud's son about trying to obtain copies but he said they don't have any of his books anymore either. I'm guessing they were never returned to the family.

Alternatively rather then make copies, I would buy the existing copies if anyone is willing to part with them.

 

[3DDave]

Mary Gannon and Richard Schneider, Hydraulics & Pneumatics magazine, might be traceable.

It appears that Mary Gannon was at: Senior Editor Mary Gannon mgannon@wtwhmedia.com in 2018.

Retired H&P Editor Alan Hitchcox is on LinkedIn and wrote a tribute.

Unfortunately it looks like Bud self-published.

I see on the e-book page "Fluid Power Circuits Explained, Copyright 2007 by Penton Media Inc." but that doesn't tell if there were further negotiations/contracts that either returned the rights to his estate on his death.

 

[PNachtwey]

I won't give away what isn't mine to give.
The Binder cost $95 back in 1996.
However, I have Bud Triknkel's old address from that time.
There is no copyright notice in the binder or in inside its pages.
Bud was a nice guy who really wanted to educate people.
I spent a lot of time debating Bud on multiple hydraulic forums.

This is the info that in printed in the binder I have.
HYPN Educational Books, Ltd.
726 Outer Gray Drive
Newburgh, In 47630-1517

My second binder says

Published by;

HYDRA-PNEU CONSULTING, INC
726 GOuter Gray Street
Newburgh, IN 47630-1517

July 2000

The second binder also has a price of $95.

I have a phone number printed on a data book.
(812) 853-3234

If you can or do contact his wife or family I would like to know.

Bud and I had very good debates back in the late 90s and early 2000s.
I was given the two binders. I did not ask for them or pay for them.
What is really good is his power point animations.

However, I repeat, Bud would do anything to avoid using a motion controller and I sell hydraulic motion controllers so we didn't always see things eye-to-eye. That is why there was debate.
I said that the cost of the pure hydraulic "kludges" and lack of precision would cost more than adding the motion controller and using standard servo quality valves and cylinders.
I regret I was not able to save his hydraulic soul. Bud maintained "flow makes it go" to the end.
I would replay that Newton did not include flow in his 3 laws of motion.
Eventually I was able to win over most of the forums when people realize that there is flow because the piston moves, not the other way around.




Peter Nachtwey
Delta Computer Systems

http://www.deltamotion.com

http://forum.deltamotion.com/

IFPS Hall of Fame Member

 

[millwrightsteve]

PNachtwey i added you on Linkedin (Steve S_____) but i was not able to send a message. I wanted to share bud's son's contact info with you privately.

 

[hydtools]

Likewise, if there is no flow the piston will not move. Must have both pressure and flow.

Ted

 

[PNachtwey]

@Millwrightseteve I have a gmail account. Just put my forum name in front of gmail.com and you will reach me.
You can also just search for my name.
I do have a LinkedIn account but I don't add people. I have deleted my LinkedIn account 2 times before and this is the 3rd time. Before I had so many people wanting to be LinkedIn.
I still get suggestions for jobs even though I have tried to make it clear I am retired.
The only reason I started up my LinkedIn account for the 3rd time is to keep in touch with other hydraulic people like Alan Hitchcox ( former H&P editor ) and Rance Herren ( IFPS ).
Now I have their e-mail address I should kill my LinkedIn account again.

Is Bud's son doing anything to market Bud's books?
Until this thread, Bud's two binders where just sitting on my book shelf. This thread got me to look at them once again. Now that I am retired I donated the two binder to my company.

@hydtools

Likewise, if there is no flow the piston will not move. Must have both pressure and flow

This is not true. A mass will drop due to gravity alone. In a cylinder the top part may cavitate as the mass falls. Net force makes things go. This is the basis of the VCCM equation that predicts the maximum speed of the actuator. Flow occurs because the piston moves and reduces the pressure on the pushing or powered side. It is a small but very important detail. Newton did not include flow in his 3 laws of motion. This is one issue that Bud and I always had debates about but Bud did not understand the math.

This is a very good thread to read and understand. It is on my forum.

https://forum.deltamotion.com/t/the-vccm-equation/378

One more thing. Many think of me a hydraulic guy but really I am a control theory guy that just happened to apply control theory to hydraulics. I can control temperature and motor systems too.



Peter Nachtwey
Delta Computer Systems

http://www.deltamotion.com

http://forum.deltamotion.com/

IFPS Hall of Fame Member

 

[TugboatEng]

Sometimes it helps to bring an outside understanding to disrupt the tribal knowledge.

 

[hydtools]

Cavitation happens because flow occurred. A delta V over time period t.

Ted

 

[PNachtwey]

Cavitation happens because flow occurred. A delta V over time period t.

Cavitation occurs due to a lack of flow and lack of pressure to keep the air from coming out of the liquid. On presses it usually happens on the cap side of a cylinder when braking.
Sometimes braking an overhauling load will cause cavitation.
On pumps it happens when the NPSH is not enough to keep fluid flowing to the pump faster than what the pump is trying to pump the fluid out.

Jack Johnson covers cavitation in his books. I wrote and article about cavitation for the H&P magazine.
The article is probably on power and motion now. I haven't bothered to look. I haven't paid any attention to power and motion.

BTW, I am trying to make contact with Bud's son. So far no response. Apparently he doesn't visit his LinkedIn account regularly but neither do I.
I think I will need to make contact another way.
What I will ask to be able to put the animated power point on line.
This is easy if I get permission.
The binders will be more difficult. I was thinking we could scan them page by page as pdf pictures. This still will take time and it won't allow one to search the images.
We can do this as time permits.


Peter Nachtwey
Delta Computer Systems

http://www.deltamotion.com

http://forum.deltamotion.com/

IFPS Hall of Fame Member

 

[hydtools]

As you note, flow is involved.

Ted

 

[3DDave]

It's worse when cavitation is not air coming out of solution, but the base fluid becoming a low-density gas.

Much worse.

It readily re-condenses with incredible speed under slight pressure differences, which is what leads to the damage.

Saw a case where a control valve sometimes sent a stream of cavitation bubbles that eroded through the side of the valve recess and into another chamber leading to hydraulics being actuated in ways not possible per the schematic. Made a hole the size of a pin, but that was enough. We put a hard steel ring into the path, but that was only a bandaid until the valve maker could change the valve to stop doing it.

If you do get the book, then use a black backing sheet for scanning. For some reason they are usually white - but that allows light that passes through the paper to be reflected back, except where there is printing on the back side. That printing on the back side then shows as a difficult to remove shadow. Fully black backing and there can be no shadow - the only light recorded will be scattered from the front surface.

There are some tools to do text recognition and embedding into PDFs to make them searchable. It's been a while. I had OmniPage and it was sometimes really good, but it really requires a clean image - hence the black backing for scans.

 

[TugboatEng]

Ok, time to take a step back. There is no "air" involved in cavitation. Cavitation is the vaporization of the process fluid.

If you're talking about air bubbles the term for that is ventilation.

One is much more damaging than the other.

 

[3DDave]

There could be some air. My company made a system for removing dissolved air from PAO. What a royal pain as any chance and the air would force it's way back in under normal pressure. Not instantaneously but quickly enough. At high altitude it would escape and spoil the cooling system.

 

[TugboatEng]

For sure there can be air. Silicone brake fluid used in aircraft are notorious for holding air in suspension and recommend vacuum bleeding. All fluids will hold air to some extent but cavitation requires a distinction because it can be so damaging, no air required.

 

[akkamaan]

Flow doesn't make the motion. Flow is motion. Force makes the flow and the motion. Pressure is just another way to express force...