Camera for structural inspections 5

[milkshakelake]

Anyone have a good solution for taking photos of structures? Problem: My iPhone takes the best pictures, especially in dark places. It doesn't look very professional to clients, though.

I've tried using Fuji X-E1 ISO 3200 F2.8 with shutter 1/125s, but the photos come out grainy and sometimes blurred because of the large aperture. I usually take a shot where my flashlight is pointed. I've also tried Sony RX Vii (more portable for tight crawl spaces and getting behind sheetrock) but have similar results. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong, because my iPhone simply takes clearer and more focused pictures. It has a mode where I hold up the camera for a few seconds in dark spaces and the results are usually good.

The other thing I was thinking about was using flash, but it would hurt the portability of the Fuji X-E1. And my poor Sony RX Vii can't keep up with recharging its flash with how many pictures I take, like 200 or so per building. It's not about the batteries, because I carry spares; it's about the time between shots.

 

[Brad805]

I really like my Nikon 5600 for field reviews. The level of detail I can collect from slab level is awesome. I use that except when I forget to charge it up. One does need to watch some videos on Youtube to sort out the different lighting problems. Did someone say something about the phone or is that just a sense?

The phone is using photogrammetry for scans. If you want a tool that does a decent job of that accuracy wise that is not a point scanner you need a Leica BLK360 They are coming down in price, but when I checked a few years ago they were $25k. Matterport has a few options as well, but I have more faith in Leica. Matterport is developing the tools largely for real estate, so pictures and models are the main focus. Finding software to give you the measuring capability from panoramic views is not super easy. You cannot jamb this technology into a phone. Well, not yet anyway.

 

[TLHS]

I looked things up and there are a few studies that have been done on the iPhone lidar. Looks like +/- 30mm is about the range of accuracy you should expect. Presumably relative distances of close items should be better than that. So, yeah, not detailing level of scanning, but still useful for conceptual visualization, high level clash avoidance and 'oh no I didn't get a picture or measurement of that thing and I need some kind of basis'

https://conferences.lib.unb.ca/inde...howed that with Modelar's,accuracy of ± 3 cm.

 

[EdStainless]

When I was doing a lot of field work I used an Olympus Tough.
They are expensive and the optics aren't the very best.
But they are waterproof and will survive drops from height onto concrete.
And the flash is much better than average as some of them use multiple lights.
I often would take a video at low res panning across an area.
And then go back and take high res stills of various details.
It was great for having context.
I have a compact Canon NEX that takes much better photos, but I would hate to drop it or get it wet.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[Brad805]

TLHS, the benefit of photogrammetry is the speed for data collection. You can do a much better job with any of the $500 360 pano cameras instead of a phone and it is just as fast. This is what all the real estate people are using. We use cupix to host our pano images, and you can create plans with dimensions if you pay attention when taking your site panos. They work best when you have lots of things in the images that the software can use to compare. We have tried it on raw sites and there is not always enough objects on site so the software automatically matches the panos. We have lidar scanner as well, but that is a whole different topic.

 

[Tomfh]

Which 360 camera would you recommend

 

[Brad805]

Tom, I think ours is the Ricoh 360 from a few years back. The insta360 is popular. Matterport is a very popular host for working with the panos, and they sell some cameras. If you are interested in the 360 cameras I would look at some of the videos by Ben Claremont on Youtube. He has a lot of useful tips and reviews the pro's and con's of all the popular cameras. Ben Claremont

 

[milkshakelake]

Update, I bought a camera mounted flash. It was only $150 with shipping and tax (Godox V350F), so it's no big loss if it doesn't work well. It has a flash recharge time of 2 seconds, which is far better than the one built into the camera. It's mainly to get that forensic engineer look, but is also hopefully better in dark spaces. Though the iPhone can do dark places, it ends up blurry, which sucks if I'm trying to see something like a bolt or plate. A tripod was never an option so hopefully this fits the bill. I'll share some good photos if I get any. Otherwise, I'll keep it to myself and cry at night.

@ThomasH I'm not particularly interested in photography, but I do want to take better site photos and train others in the office to do so. I'm tired of grainy, blurry, or underexposed photos. I've been practicing bracing the camera to my body for stability, which should work for both the camera and the iPhone.

 

[Tomfh]

Nice.

I find the best thing about a proper flash is being able to use bounce flash, which generally gives much better light than direct flash.

 

[milkshakelake]

I did a direct comparison between iPhone and a real camera with flash (Fuji X-E1 camera + Godox TT350F flash) at similar angles. Conclusion: Neither one takes discernably better photos than another at my skill level, but the camera was more convenient to handle. I'm sure both can be improved with some practice and techniques.

iPhone + flashlight

Real camera + flash

iPhone

Real camera + flash

Some thoughts:
-Flash flattens cracks that are straight on, which is not good for structural inspection. Will use bounce flash next time, though exposing it is trickier.
-The photo of the column with the real camera is much clearer than the iPhone when I zoom in. Without zooming, it's hard to tell the difference.
-When climbing ladders, it was annoying to have the camera in front of me almost hitting steps.
-When not climbing ladders, camera was more convenient because it freed my hands for note taking (I use a neck strap). Probably will swing it to the back next time.
-iPhone kind of needs a flashlight in dark places, so both hands will be occupied. Otherwise, it goes to long exposure mode and the results are blurry/grainy.
-I was worried about the flash recharge, but it's not an issue at all. I fired off lots of shots in succession when panoramically photographing an area. Manufacturer lists it at 2-4 seconds, and it's more like 2 seconds.

 

[3DDave]

Look for a cheap upgrade and get an extension cable to move the flash off the camera in the case that the wireless function is not available. This will allow better control to capture cracks and the like. For another dollar or so you can also add a piece of foamcore to bounce the flash off to more evenly light the area. This will probably cause the flash work a bit harder - 4 seconds ahoy.

 

[phamENG]

You can get a neck strap for your iPhone, too.

I have a few super bright LED stand lights in my trunk. Battery powered, small, and easy to set up in crawl spaces and other dark areas. They make taking pictures a lot easier. In really tight areas, I have a headlight. Takes some adjustment to hold the phone at an angle so you don't have a giant phone shaped shadow in the shot, but I've gotten pretty good at it.

My Android phone's Night Mode is great as long as there isn't a ton of dust in the air. It takes some patience, though. The post processing is designed to account for very minor shakes, but more than a mm or two and it screws it up.

 

[milkshakelake]

@3DDave Will try that, thanks. I do have a tripod, just need a wireless commander.

@phamENG Good idea, I might grab a few of those. I stopped using a headlamp because it's hard to angle the light at the right way to show cracks; flashlight is a bit easier. Some ground placed LEDs or flash might work.

 

[dik]

I used to have a Canon Powershot SX-20IS, that I thought was perfect. It used to have a red light that would project on the object and use that for focusing. For close up shots 6' to 10' it was perfect. I could take photos in a burned out building, in the dark, and the images were good. Canon has several renditions of the above camera over the years, I assume they are as good. Another feature was that it used re-chargeable AA batteries.

A flash is really handy for taking better pictures... with a little practice it enhances nearly all photos, including those with cracks. I prefer an actual strobe unit to the 'built in' flash. The Canon flash I had with the SX-20 above was nearly as big as the camera (bigger maybe, and just remembered some of the Canon powershots don't have hot shoes). Same with my strobe for my Sony...

I currently use a Sony A6000 for site, but I don't take many pictures anymore... maybe get out to a site once every month or two.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[XR250]

For me, it is iPhone 12 and a headlight. Lately, been doing about 7 crawlspaces per week. I also carry an extra small flashlight in my notepad. Have not had any need or desire for anything additional. Having the phone so integrated with the cloud photo storage is really nice.

 

[milkshakelake]

@dik I do prefer a dedicated flash over the built-in one. The built-in one is much weaker and takes far too long to recharge. My camera is good at focusing in a fraction of a second, but I need practice with the aperture settings to get some more depth of field.

@XR250 It does help to have it transfer stuff automatically, which is easier than with a camera. I stopped using the cloud and now use an app called Photosync (it's like $6 to $25 one time purchase) since I'd rather not pay for subscriptions if I can help it. Works pretty well; throws stuff onto my server. There are also options for having the phone wirelessly grab photos from newer cameras and uploading them to the cloud or a server, but my camera is too old to have Wifi.

 

[dik]

For reasonably close stuff, with a flash, the aperture setting can be pretty small (high f number); I don't find depth to be an issue, except for macro shots where even a large f number yields a pretty limited depth of field. Check website

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com

for articles on focus stacking, or check forum "engineers with hobbies" for examples of this. Some amazing stuff... but, I've not had the time to try it out.

I need a 'hot shoe' on a camera... something my phone doesn't have. My P30 Pro takes very good photos, if you do your part.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[BigH]

I will throw my hat into cell phones (S7E or S22) . . . I used to use a Sony small camera and it took crappy pictures in tunnels; yet, the cell phone is remarkably good . . . What I miss, though, is an old FUJI I had that permitted you to take a photo and then add a few seconds of commment . . . maybe some day - yes, you can do with a video but you then have to still take a photo.

 

[dik]

Just in my in basket...

https://cdn.annexbusinessmedia.com/...um=email&utm_campaign=&*URLENCODE({{*JobID}})

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[milkshakelake]

@dik Thanks for the link. And you're right, I might use a smaller aperture for close up shots. Those end up being the blurriest and the flash should make good work of it. My camera does have a shot shoe and automatic flash metering (TTL), but it takes getting used to. Need to increase the exposure for distant shots and reduce it for close ups. The flash itself has a red IR sensor for distance but it doesn't work as well as I'd like, or I need more experience with it.

@BigH I saw some home inspectors and insurance people using iPads and marking up the photos on site, which seems really useful. I just wouldn't want to lug an iPad around and possibly bang it on a stud or something. I write down the notes. My pen stops working when it gets really cold, so I'll probably switch to a pencil. Sigh, so many little things.

 

[dik]

...and another... a webinar.

https://www.on-sitemag.com/construc...um=email&utm_campaign=&*URLENCODE({{*JobID}})

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik