Can I use INDIVIDUALLY notation 1

[Andera]

Can I use INDIVIDUALLY notation near the size dimension to break the alignment -simultaneous requirements- between those Ø6mm and Ø10mm holes?
(the mutual interrelationship between each other)
I've seen it used with profile, but never with position.
Is it something wrong to use it (INDIVIDUALLY note) or maybe there are other ways to accomplish the same thing?

 

[3DDave]

You want to break the pattern within each of the two callouts? INDIVIDUALLY should do so, but I don't recall seeing that use up to the '2009 'Y14.5 version, so whoever this goes to will likely require a discussion. Perhaps a note?

 

[Andera]

You want to break the pattern within each of the two callouts?

Yes, correct.

INDIVIDUALLY should do so, but I don't recall seeing that use up to the '2009 'Y14.5 version, so whoever this goes to will likely require a discussion

What are the unintended consequences of such approach?
Anything you can think of?

 

[3DDave]

Unintended? Your inspectors call you up and say they can find nothing in the specification that allows this.

 

[Andera]

Your inspectors call you up and say they can find nothing in the specification that allows this.

Just because it is not shown in the standard as an example, does it mean it is not allowed?
Could be used? Is it illegal?

 

[3DDave]

The point of a standard is to provide a standard interpretation. This interpretation is not in the 'Y14.5 standard through the 2009 version. It's neither "allowed" or "illegal". It's just a guess that it might be taken to mean what you want it to mean.

 

[drawoh]

Andera,

What are you trying to accomplish? If you need each hole specification to be an accurate pattern, but don't care about the positioning of the two patterns, look up composite feature control frames.

--
JHG

 

[Andera]

What are you trying to accomplish? If you need each hole specification to be an accurate pattern, but don't care about the positioning of the two patterns, look up composite feature control frames.

I need to be able to break the pattern of those two Ø6mm holes and I also need to break the pattern of those two Ø10mm holes.
So, the holes within each pattern should not be contain in the pattern. Actually, I would like "to destroy" the patterns.

 

[drawoh]

Andera,

I don't understand. What do you mean "breaking" your patterns?

What you are doing is controlling each hole separately from your datum features. Your [⌀]10mm[ ]holes are controlled more accurately than your [⌀]6mm[ ]holes. To control your patterns, you would do composite FCFs.

--
JHG

 

[ctopher]

If you ask the question, so will the machinists and inspectors.
Make it clear for everyone.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '17
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[Andera]

I don't understand. What do you mean "breaking" your patterns?

2x before the size dimensions automatically creates a pattern (pattern mechanism creation in Y14.5).
The question is, if I am using INDIVIDUALLY note, will I break this pattern or not, according to ASME Y14.5?

 

[ewh]

Use two separate dimensions for the same size holes, add SEP REQT to break any two-hole pattern.

"Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively."
-Dalai Lama XIV

 

[Burunduk]

As you mentioned INDIVIDUALLY is used with profile for the purpose you intend.
Shouldn't be interpreted differently for position.

Use two separate dimensions for the same size holes, add SEP REQT to break any two-hole pattern.

This could work nicely for the example shown, but would you suggest the same if these were patterns consisted of 30 same size holes each?

 

[ewh]

I was only addressing this situation. If there are 30 holes and one call out, I would add "30X INDIVIDUALLY" beneath the FCF and include a flag note stating that the FCF applies to the indicated holes individually without the establishment of any pattern.

"Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively."
-Dalai Lama XIV

 

[drawoh]

Andera,

Your hole specifications position each hole separately from the datum features. To control patterns (the exact opposite of what you seem to want), you do the following...

[box][⌖][/box][box][⌀]0.7[/box][box]A[/box][box]B[/box][box]C[/box]
[box][⌖][/box][box][⌀]0.2[/box][box]A[/box]

This a composite tolerance in which your pattern must be positioned to within [⌀]0.2mm, but the whole pattern only needs to be positioned to [⌀]0.7mm.

Basically, you have no problem.

--
JHG