Can You Top This? Extremes in Non-Ethical Behavior 8

[plasgears]

I am collaborating on a book tentatively entitled "Management by Disaster." This relates to the chapter on ethics. In facility management there is a tendency to direct plant resources and contractor connections towards personal gain.

An electrical engineer described a situation where the plant manager of a power plant had a large metal shed erected on his personal property at plant expense. Plant personnel were involved in the erection. Can you top this?

 

[btrueblood]

IR, I will have to ask the wife if she recalls, I seem to have blocked it out of my memory. The name Christy comes to mind, but I doubt the reliability of that. The company made rocket engines, was born a subsidiary of the company that made Mustangs (the kind with 3 wheels and wings), at the time I was there had been purchased by a company known for truck axles and air tools, subsequently got sold to Boeing...

The memory of the hair standing up on the back of my neck (can you say "creep me out"?) when my wife clued me in still remains...

 

[IRstuff]

OK, that's enough to know it's someone else.

I don't recall whether this person actually sued for the reimbursement for the operation, but there certainly was a separate bathroom just for her at our company.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[JStephen]

"Oh, so non licensed engineers aren't allowed to write reports? I'd get off that high horse."

I'm assuming that "signed off on" the item involved stamping it with a PE seal, although that's not actually stated. I'm assuming that it was stamped because it was required to be stamped, and not just for decoration. And if that was the case, a non-licensed engineer shouldn't have been allowed to write it unless under the supervision of a licensed engineer.

My point was that you can't very well ask somebody to illegally plan-stamp your work and then turn around and accuse them of unethical behavior for doing so.

 

[GregLocock]

I meant what I said. Exactly.

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[JStephen]

In that case, the answer to your question would vary according to the exact circumstances involved, and your state engineering laws and rules would need to be consulted for further guidance.

 

[melone]

A "non-engineer" can write the report, but the PE should understand if before stamping, right?

 

[monkeydog]

If the PE has someone who is either in training, or technically capable, it would be prudent for her/him to have someone else prepare and write a report for her/his review and approval. This provides training, a second set of eyes reviewing the product, and is cost effective.

 

[SylvestreW]

"And if that was the case, a non-licensed engineer shouldn't have been allowed to write it unless under the supervision of a licensed engineer."
As stated, the V.P. was a P.E.
The junior's manager (who's a P.E.) should have been the one to review and sign off on the report but unfortunately was away and the deadline for the report got moved. The V.P. (the manager's boss) took it upon himself to sign off on the report and send it out.


"A "non-engineer" can write the report, but the PE should understand if before stamping, right?"
Absolutely. It's how we all learnt (hopefully). Else, how could any junior progress?
The reasoning that the PE should "understand" is because by stamping, he/she is taking legal responsibility for the technical accuracy of the document.


-
Aercoustics.com

 

[vc66]

melone-

By "non-engineer", do you mean someone who does not have his/her PE? It seems like that may be your meaning based on the context of your statement.

Just wondering...

V

Mechanical Engineer
"When I am working on a problem, I do not think of beauty, but when I've finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong."

- R. Buckminster Fuller

 

[melone]

By the recent tone of the thread, I assumed that a "non-engineer" is someone who does not have their P.E.. Notice, I haven't assessed the validity of this definition.

 

[BarryEng]

Well - my two stories are really very small bikkies compared to what I have read above.

Story one.
I was asked to come in for an interview by a large firm for a job (nickel mine) that involved an outfall pipeline into the ocean. I had just completed an outfall pipeline into the ocean. During the hour interview, I was asked how I would approach this job. Job did not eventuate & no feed back.

I was asked to come in for an interview by a large firm (same firm as above) for a job that involved development of a townsite with a waste water treatment plant attached. I had just completed a townsite waste water treatment plant. During the hour interview, I was asked how I would approach this job. Job did not eventuate & no feed back.

The third time the firm approached me, I said 'no thanks' & they were very concerned that I did not appear to want to work for their firm. Funny that.

I have since been told that 'free' consulting advice is always available by finding a person with the necessary expertise, advertising a 'position' with heaps of money, (or approaching them), with the duties exactly the same as the 'expert'. I have been told that it is amazing what you can find out in one hour with a 'willing' participant. At almost negligible cost as well.

Story two.
I have on occasions supplied my CV for overseas projects, to large firms. Sometimes I do not receive any feedback (indeed not even an initial acknowledgement) about the application process. Some time later, imagine my surprise when (CV shown to me to indicate the caliber of the applicants) I saw what I consider to be my CV (with the name of another person).

I have since been told that this (trading of CV's) is not a rare incident, by any means.

 

[jmw]

BarryEng,
be glad that is all that was plagiarised.
At my last company they interviewed a guy, looked at his CV and gave him the job.
He turned up for his first day ok.
The second day he didn't arrive but the police did.
They had found him sleeping in a wharehouse or something and discovered he was an illegal immigrant. It transpires that he had none of the qualifications he claimed, it was not only someone else's CV but someone else's identity he had used.
Of course, it does beg the question, what sort of background check did they do, what references they took up and, of course, what on earth they talked about during the interviews that they didn't discover that he knew nothing consistent with the qualifications and experience shown in the CV.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[IRstuff]

Actually, that used to be common, as far as the amount of interviewing involved. A formar HUGE company used to send out college recruiters who would offer jobs, on the spot. Several weeks later, a newbie would show up in our department, for which we had no opening, nor any work suitable for the person involved.

Eventually, we managed to convince someone to swap the programmer for a EE, that we could at least use productively.

Unfortunately, he turned out to be a lump on a log... He likewise was hired by a college recruiter and the marched around until a department was forced to take him.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[EddyC]

I had 2 employers who put "PE" after the names of some of their unlicensed staff (without their knowledge or consent) when submitting proposals containing resumes. This could potentially cause an unaware employee to come in conflict with the state board.

 

[plasgears]

jmw,

It has become common for propective companies to ask to see original documents of your degree and PE license. This has happened several times with me. I agree with this; it will weed out the liars and scoundrels who falsify.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

How many times have you been asked for an ID or license confirmation when obtaining your PE stamp....

Only once or twice for me.....out of 43!!!

 

[JStephen]

Mike, I'm not aware that the rubber stamp companies are under any obligation to confirm credentials before making the stamps. If they were, they would do better to confirm it with the state board rather than the purchaser.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

JStephen -

I agree but ----- Basically you are saying anyone can walk in and get an Engineering Seal.

How it's used and who checks it is another thing??

How many licenses have you ever checked?? And what did we do before the Internet --- nothing.....because it took weeks when they wanted written requests.

The one guy who did ask me had problems with a fake Notary Seal.

 

[DonPhillips]

Anyone can make an electronic seal, like a CAD file.

Don Phillips

http://worthingtonengineering.com