Can't find a job 3

[global9000]

I live in Canada and I'm finding it extremely difficult to find an Engineering position. I graduated 2 years ago with a B.Eng and have had 2 short term contracts in that time, that didn't lead anywhere. I've been unemployed for over a year now and things are not getting any better. My field of interest is digital hardware design. I have experience in this area as well as software development experience. I had really good grades in school, graduated top of my class no less. Yet I am still having trouble finding full time employment. I'm applying for any positions now that are remotely related to my degree. I've had my resume reviewed by recruiters and they all tell me it looks excellent, but of course my lack of experience automatically disqualifies me from any positions they have.

The thing that amazes me about Canadian companies is the lack of entry-level positions. It just seems they all want someone with 5 years experience working with technology thats only been out for 4 years! And if its not that they try to outsource everything they can. I almost had a job but the position was outsourced to India.

Right now I am taking some part-time programming classes and networking. I've applied to Graduate school but didn't get accepted. The only options I see in the future are to re-apply to graduate school or to go into the trades. I'm leaning towards the latter.

Any advice on finding a job would be greatly appreciated.

 

[GeoSmith]

Do you try to apply some sale engineer? A friend of mine live at Canada and also has similar situation. He apply the sale job and earn a good living.

 

[Pressed]

Similar was asked before and I replied with this:

There are headhunters that specialize in new graduates. I don't have any contacts. Let me know if you can't find any.

Sometimes you have to move to a city where your special field is either in demand or in quantity. I assume you have determined your target employers and sent them your info?

Others here and myself have commented that you have to push your way into some companies and it can work. I pushed for six months and got a very low paying job. That job hopscotched me into a better job, and so on.

_______________________________________
Feeling frisky.........

http://www.tailofthedragon.com

 

[CarolinaPE]

The experience thing can be a little frustrating, companies always are looking to hire "the guy that just left". I agree with Pressed, you may have to move to find the right place.

 

[RDK]

How were your marks?

New graduates don’t have much to differentiate between them other than marks so they are important. I’m guessing not that hot since you did not get unto grad school.

Where are you from? What university and what province. I would not be looking for entry level high tech jobs anywhere other than Toronto or Vancouver. If you are in St Johns or Regina then you will be SOL. If you graduated from Toronto, Queens or Western then you should not have trouble getting a job, if one of the bottom schools on the MacLean’s rankings than you may have a problem.

Is your cover letter and resume letter perfect? The first impression is these documents and they better be perfect. Hire a HR type to have a look at them and provide comments.

How do you interview? Do you show up spiked hair and torn t-shirts or button down with tie? This stuff is important in being considered to be a professional. Again hire a HR type to assist you in this area. Hold mock interviews and listen to the feedback.

What is your attitude like? Is it here I am ready to save the world from idiots like the one interviewing you or is it respectful and humble with just a little pride and confidence?

How many applications have you sent out? There are list companies that will provide you lists of names and contacts for about $0.25 each or if you have a lot more time than money the internet has this information.

You should be sending out 100 or so application a week every week until you start working.


How well did your classmates do? If everyone else but you got a job then its most likely you. If no one got a job then it may be the economy, the location or the school.

Good luck


Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[cadnutcase]

global,

I know what you mean about requiring 5 years experience in a technology that has only been around in for 4 years. I once saw a position that wanted minimum 20 years experience in AutoCAD. This was back in '96.

One thing I did that really helped when I was having a hard time. I low balled my rate to the point where the employer couldn't pass me up, it was in a industry that I had no experience in. I ended up staying there for 5 years and in that time they almost doubled my pay by the time I left. I went from low man on the pole to running the department.

The hard part was getting in the door, and since they were a small company I knew the most important thing to them was the money. A gambling man would say I bet the come and it payed off big time.

 

[macmet]

One thing I know people did when I was in school that were older that couldn't find jobs was get a current undergrad to give them access to their job database. I'm not sure how much that will help right now, but starting the new year their will be many positions listed.

This I guess will also depend on your school, which RDK did point out -- although I don't necessarily agree with his three selections but nonetheless. The school itself is not only important but your program within the school as well. I believe some schools might offer a much better mech program compared to elec and vice versa. But that's off topic, so moving on...

The one question I have his how did you manage to finish top of your class and not get into grad school? That is unheard of, the top of the class student should be a lock for NSERC which should make you a lock for grad school and then you could pick and choose.

Good luck in your search

 

[vooter]

Don't give up!

As an electrical, you certainly can go work for an electrician - get that real hands-on experience. And/or consider construction inspection - somebody needs to to the grunt work. My first job out of school was inspection of construciton; didn't pay squat - I barely made my rent and ran out of gas a few times... BUT, the practical plan-reading and watching things get built experience (not to mention getting to know the kinds of people who do the building - I mean the rod-busters, not the architects or construction managers) was invaluable and was a real plus when interviewing for the "real" job.

Again, don't give up!

 

[spciesla]

You said that your grades were good and you graduated at the top of your class, but you didn't get accepted to graduate school. Why were you turned down for graduate school? You may want to investigate the apparent disconnect. Maybe that will expose a weakness that you're not aware of.

 

[GolfMeeting]

There is always a job out there. YOu just have to take it and prove you are willing to work. Keep looking and hunting until you get a job you like.

You may start out flipping burgers or working for a firm as the janitor, but you can get to where you want when the jobs open up with a work background.

 

[CarolinaPE]

PS- don't put all your eggs in one basket on the grad school thing, apply to several. Some offer assitance and pay you to help profs with research. Apply to several and something could turn up.

 

[global9000]

Thanks for the help guys. The advice is much appreciated.

Right now I am trying to get some more info from the grad schools I applied too. I would like to know exactly why I didn't get in. So far all I've gotten is that there were many excellent candidates and basically I wasn't good enough to beat them out. But I'm going to keep harassing them until I get a straight answer.

I have also signed up for a job finding class that includes mock interviewing. I have been told my resume is excellent by a couple hi-tech recruiters, but I'm going to pay to have it written by a "professional" anyways.

I've wanted to be an engineer since I was a teenager so I'm not gonna give up on it just yet. I figure I will give it at least another 6 months before I go and become a plumber or electrician.

Oh and, RDK my grades were top of my class from a school ranked in the top 5 for undegraduate studies by Macleans magazine.

 

[GolfMeeting]

Sounds like you are the all books and no play kind of guy. These sorta resumes get tossed in the trash a lot.

Did you include any extra-curricular activities on your resume?

How do you interview? What are your hobbies? The people hiring you want to make sure you have fun outside the workplace and that you would be someone that would be fun to work with. They don't want someone that doesn't have any pressure relieve valves that could go postal.

Networking at a golf course is always good too.

Have you networked with the guys that graduated ahead of you?

 

[49078]

Global9000,

Did you have any good job experience? Have you looked for a temp position maybe to give you some sort of experience if you did not?

I am surprised you could not have got into grad school, were there not any profs at your school that really liked you? Prof's always seem to love the students with the good grades.

If I had the top marks in my class I'd put my application in for grad school in september and then travel or do something fun while you have the chance.

Good luck in your search though, I'm sure if you're patient it will all work out.

btw, don't put too much stock into those Maclean's rankings

 

[CanuckMiner]

GolfMeeting, Are you serious? I never pay much attention to the extra-curricular activities section on any resume I receive. I want an engineer, not someone who is an avid flamenco dancer and reigning Cub Scout leader of the year. ;-)

global9000, have you expanded your geographical horizons (i.e. looking for work elsewhere in Canada and perhaps the world)? Good luck to you in your search.

Cheers,
CanuckMiner

 

[global9000]

49078, I have good experience and excellent references but the supply for my skills far outweighs the demand right now. Why hire a new grad for 40k a year when you can get a guy with 2-3 years experience for the same price? This is what I have been told by recruiters in the field. I could have gone to grad school at my school but their research in my area of interest is very limited. I don't put any stock into the Macleans rankings, but some companies do.

Golfmeeting, I didn't include my extra curriculars but they're back on the resume now. Networking at a golf course. How many engineers play a lot of golf? I used to play when I had the money and I only met 2 engineers, both civil guys.

CanuckMiner, I'm actually looking at Ottawa, Greater Toronto Area, and Calgary right now. I've looked and applied in the states and the UK but they have plenty of their own grads to hire.

I am actually looking into changing my field right now and studying electrical power. I know very few people who went this route after graduation. It seems like the job to applicant ratio is a lot better in this field, especially with a lot of the older guys reaching retirement age. What do you guys think about this idea? Maybe I'll get my electricians ticket in the process.

 

[wes616]

I have ever hired someone because of their grades; however, I have hired someone because they were a boy scout (eagle scout).

Wes C.
------------------------------
In this house, we OBEY the laws of thermodynamics! - Homer Simpson

 

[Beggar]

Global9000, I don't think you understand networking. You're not just trying to network with engineers. You're trying to network with anybody is an engineer or knows an engineer or works with engineers or sells things to engineers or cuts their hair or serves their food or pumps their gas... get it? That's why it's a network.

That said, golf is a very expensive way to go about it.

--------------------
Bring back the HP-15

http://www.hp15c.org

--------------------

 

[macmet]

I think I have to agree with GolfMeeting, in almost every interview I have ever had we talked about my extra curriculars.

I don't see a downside to it. Think about it like this, they look at your hobbies and, like Canuckminer, don't care so they base their decision on the rest of your resume, which they would have done with or without the hobbies listed. But, if their favorite sport is cricket, serie A or F1 racing and you list that as a passion of yours maybe they give you an interview because you're the only candidate that they have somethign in common with. That will not work everytime, but if it works 1/10 that's still 10% more interviews then you might have had without them listed.

I realize though, global9000 that you said you put your hobbies back on your resume, I'm just stating my point.

Good luck...again.

 

[global9000]

Hey guys,

Well out of nowhere I just got a call from a contact of mine and was offered a job. It's electrical power related. I'm glad it's in this field because I find it interesting and I don't need to worry about my job being outsourced to India. I have zero experience in this area and the reason I got the job was because 1) I know someone in the company 2) I know someone in the company 3) I know someone in the company.

Thanks for all your help guys. Networking is what got me the job in the end. So all you new or recent grads out there, take it from me, you gotta newtork!