Career advice for an entry level engineer 11

[PaKaz]

Hey guys,
I am new to this forum. So, I don't know if this is a right place to ask this question. I got my B.S. in Structural Engineering last year and I have been working at a Timber Industry for over a year now. Recently, I am thinking about going back to grad school, but the question is if I should do my MS in engineering or get MBA. My long term career goal is to become a project manager or managing principle. I asked couple of engineers and some said to get MBA since engineers usually don't have enough management and market knowledge to become a good manager and other said, MBA is overstated and I should go for MS in engineering to move up. In my personal opinion, I think I should get MBA with PE or SE license. What you guys suggest for this situation? Your suggestion on this matter will be really helpful.

Thanks,

 

[GregLocock]

However that strongly depends on where you are, what sort of job you want, and why you want to do a masters.

If you work in the automotive engineering world, then a masters or PhD taken while you are less than 30 will REDUCE your starting wage, in Australia. Wait until you have some real world experience under your belt before pursuing either. By then, your knowledge in your industry will exceed anything you might have learned at university. That is the point behind Wes' note of the 16th Sept.

By the time you are 30 you might well choose to pursue a further degree, but it might well not be in engineering.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[COEngineeer]

I got my MS before I got a design job. I wish I went to grad school while i work because I would have so many questions for my professor from my projects.

 

[jpankask]

I think PaKaz said somewhere above that the plan was to go to school part time (at night) while working. So by the time of graduation, PaKaz would be almost 30. I really think full-time work and part time grad school is the best way to do grad school, unless you plan to be an academic/research person. I was able to apply SOME stuff that I was learning right away to my job and other stuff I could see a direct relevance that I wouldn't have seen as a full time student. Also, the work experience is going to help you much more in the future if you decide to change jobs (for most jobs).

What Greg says is correct, a lot can change in 5 years. Five years ago, I wouldn't have imagined myself where I am now and I bet that 5 years from now, I won't be where I now imagine myself going. When I am 35 or 40, I might wish I would have gotten the MBA, or chucked it all to be a missionary, you never know.

 

[PaKaz]

Thanks again for all your response. I really appreciate it. The reason I am stressing about getting M.S., because when I look at the job market, most of the employer out there wants M.S. in Structural Engineering; at least in the Southern California area. My current employer is willing to pay for my M.S. if I go to school and work at the same time, but in that case I have to go to state school which as not as recognized as my undergrad school. Many of them saying not to get it since it's going to look bad on my resume, but some of them are saying to get it since I am already in the work field and it's going to be practically free. I can always quit my job, and go to a better school, but that's not what I want to do, because I am still paying my student loan from undergrad. But if going to a better school is going to effect my career that much, than I am willing to go through it.

 

[PaKaz]

Question is should I go for the state school or go to good school and quit my current job?

 

[Chaosiscash]

PaKaz,

One of my profs once told me:

"Never get a Master's degree unless someone else pays for it"

Of course, he was a Prof at a state school, so who knows. But I say if you can get a free masters, valuable experience, and be able to continue to pay off debt instead of quitting and incurring more debt, thats the way to go. Just my opinion.

Chaos

 

[bridgebuster]

What is the reputation of the state school where you reside? Good? Bad? In between?

In New York City there are five engineering schools and three have graduate programs. It seems that many of the native-born engineers you meet from this area went to City College, Manhattan College, or Polytechnic as undergraduates. I've never come across anyone who disparaged another engineer because of his/her school (legitimate engineering school that is). We have our preferences - everyone thinks their school is tops.

The graduate schools are City College, Poytechnic, and Columbia. It seems that most make their decision based on location to home and available courses, since most of us in the city went/attend school at night. Again, I've never come across anyone who looked down upon someone because of their school.

There's a young engineer in my group who went to a highly regarded school in upstate NY then received his MS from a state school in the midwest. So what? There's another young engineer who graduated from U of Illinois. So what? Is it the name of the school on the degree or the the person with the degree who gets the job done?

Quit worrying about what others will think; does it really matter in the long run?

Just don't get one of those degrees based on your "life experiences". We had one here with an MS and PhD from California Pacific University. Good guy; knew how to bring in work, but it was hard to keep from laughing whenever he introduced himself as doctor.

 

[COEngineeer]

I went to a prestigious engineering school but I guarantee 95% of employer outside colorado wont know how good the uni is lol

 

[PaKaz]

Thanks for your answer. San Diego State University is not reputable as University of California San Diego (UCSD) where I got my BS and at the same time San Diego State is not the worse school. According my dad who is also an Engineer states that downgrading schools might look bad on my resume. As a matter of fact, I got my current job because of my school. That's why I was streching the fact about the school. You are right bridgebuster, after working for 1.5 years, no one even asks me about my school, except for our clients. I just wanted to get opinion of a profession engineer who is working in this field for a while. I mean graduating from a decent school didn't gave any salary benefit compare to those who went to no name school, but it did got me the job I like. So you guys think working and getting my MS from State school is a good idea?

 

[jpankask]

PaKaz, I would absolutely recommend working and getting your MS. If your only option is the state school, so be it. Consider that if you quit your job, you are losing your salary for about 2 years and paying, probably $15k-$20k for graduate school and living expenses, at least. The degree from the "reputable" school vs. the "no name" school will not make up this difference in cost when you go to find another job. To be honest, I am from the Midwest and I've never heard of San Diego State or UCSD so if you applied for a job with my company, I would probably go online and check out the schools but no one would look down on you because you got your MS from a "no name" school. As long as the undergraduate programs are accredited by ABET, you still have a master's degree.

A good majority of the engineers at my company graduated from Kansas State University, which has a good reputation as an engineering school. Many engineers graduated from Unviversity of Kansas, which I obviously think is not as good (hence I didn't go there) but they are still good engineers (some of them anyway). Still a few more graduated from Wichita State University. It makes no difference where they came from, what matters is the work they do. Now you probably have never heard of any of these schools but we have 140 very fine engineers working here and the company doesn't care where they went to school, just that they are degreed engineers.

In short, if I were in your situation (and I was very similar about 5 years ago, although not structural), based on my experiences I would continue working, get the MS paid for by your company and get a PE license. At that point, you are then in the drivers seat for your career. Good luck!
Jason

 

[Ashereng]

PaKaz,

I think the marks, and who your supervisor is, is probably more important than the school.

Personally, someone in the top 5 at SDSU is more impressive than bottom 5 at UCSD to me. If you work with a good professor that is well respected in industry, that is better than someone just starting out as a professor.

Just my thoughts.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[PaKaz]

Thanks for the answer from everyone. Ashereng, I did't quiet understand your comment "top 5 at SDSU is more impressive than bottom 5 at UCSD" ??

I just spoke with my current boss, and he said getting MBA is better choice because being a project manager I would need more business knowledge than technical knowledge, but When I look into the job market, I see many project manager has MS in Engineering rather than MBA. Am I right on that? Do you guys know many engineer with MBA in the position Project Manager ?? I know that MBA gives you significant salary increase compare to MS in engineering.

 

[COEngineeer]

If you dont want to do design, go for MBA. Personally, I love designing stuff. There is no way I would do Project Management.

 

[Ashereng]

I mean, I prefer the guy that finished ranked in the top five of his class from a "bad" school over the guy that finished ranked in the bottom five from a "good" school.

MBA vs MS. It depends on the role. If the job is more business related than technical, then MBA of course. If the job is mroe technial, then MS.

There have been many conversation about who makes more money, MBA vs MS. Again, it depends. If you work at Microsoft, I am willing to bet the techies make more money. If you work for Morgan Stanley, I am willing to be the MBAs make more.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[bridgebuster]

"MBA vs MS. It depends on the role. If the job is more business related than technical, then MBA of course. If the job is mroe technial, then MS."

Absolutely. I would add that it also depends on the company since PM can be a nebulous postion.

For example where I work some PM's strictly manage the administrative & contractual aspects of the project; others deal only with technical matters; and the rest of us are somewhere in between.

We have two PE/MBA PMs. One only deals with managing budgets, schedules, reports; he won't make any technical decisions; can't design his way out of a paper bag and he admits it. The other is an excellent structural engineer but he's a disaster when it comes to managing budgets, keeping the project files in order, etc.

I work for a large company; most of the corporate managers are not engineers. Many of the regional managers and P/L managers are engineers. The way we operate, these people deal mainly with money issues and business development/marketing; they do little or no technical work. If this is your ambition (LARGE COMPANY) MBA is probably the way to go. However, you still need to have a good understanding of how a project gets done.

If your goal is to work in a smaller firm, where many of the principals are more actively involved in technical work - MS.

AS a PM, my work I prefer the engineering aspect of the project. Honestly,tracking project schedules, budgets, etc doesn't require an MBA; it's more a matter of being organized and dilligent. Most of the PM's here are PE/MS rather than PE/MBA. Another aspect of my job is business development/proposals - doesn't take an MBA.

PaKaz - I had an uncle who lived to be 95; not one grey hair on his head. His philosophy was simple: Pace yourself.
Take a breather; give yourself some time to find out what will give you fulfillment in your work.

 

[COEngineeer]

95 not one gray hair on his head? No way? Was he bald?

 

[bridgebuster]

His hair was a little thin but no grey. It wasn't Grecian Formula 16. I see guys in the office who dye their hair and it's obvious. His two remaining brothers are 80 and 88 - both grey.

Maybe it was the morning OJ with the rye chaser or the five DiNobili cigars (aka guinea stinkers) each day.

Then again, he wasn't an engineer; that might've had something to do with it.

 

[PaKaz]

Does Salary rate depends on the type of graduate school?

 

[johnsmith2]

Your uncle was retired? How to live longer?

 

[jpankask]

PaKaz, salary rate depends on a lot of factors, type of graduate school may play a factor for some companies. Obviously, if a company is looking for a project manager with an MBA, they will probably pay a higher salary to someone with an MBA vs. someone with an MS. On the other hand, a lot of companies don't want to pay extra salary because they don't value a masters degree and/or don't require it. In short, we go back to the previous posts. If you desire to stay more in the engineering side and you get the MS degree, some companies will be more willing to pay you more because you have that MS. If you desire to transition more to project management or managing an engineering office, a company will probably pay you more if you have the MBA.

You have no doubt read the salary reports that state MBA graduates' salaries are in the top 10, or whatever. Those MBA's are typically people who work for financial organizations or upper management at large public companies, etc. Harvard graduate MBA's will usually command a starting bonus of tens of thousands of dollars and high starting salary. You won't see that as project manager of an engineering firm.

What you need to decide is if you want to tend more to the technical side of engineering or more to the management side. The rest will fall into place after that.