Circuit design and assembly advice

[Mike247]

Hello,

We have a time clock type of device that we need to improve (e.g. add Wi-Fi capability, make it wall-mountable, etc.) This device was built by a partner who has moved on to other ventures, so I need to find an engineer or a company to develop the device.

I talked to a local electronics engineer about this project. He has good experience as he used to design cell phones, pagers, and satellite radios in his previous jobs. He is currently unemployed, so he is interested in the project. However, since he never worked on his own before, he does not have any of the tools of the trade, and he mentioned he would need us to buy him a laptop with Cadence and Allegro software so he could do the designs. From a web search I found a thread on this forum that mentioned these products and that they could cost over 10K.

The PC board we have is rather simple. It's a single layer board and 4"*2" in size. The product is rather simple too - all it does is save an ID with a time stamp for later download (via USB or Wi-Fi). Components include an LCD display, Mag stripe reader, processor, memory, a buzzer, and rechargeable batteries.

My question is whether there is a more economical way of getting this job done. Paying over 10K for software that we only need to use once seems excessive.

In addition to needing the circuit designed, we also need a mechanical engineer to design the plastic enclosure, an assembly place to put the parts together, a software engineer to update the firmware, etc. So we need a turnkey solution.

Do you have a recommendation on an electronics engineering company that would take care of the whole process? I heard that many companies would not have interest in our project because of the low volume (we are starting with 50 run for the prototype, and then building 500 as our initial run).

We are located in the Orlando, FL area.

Thanks in advance.
Mike.

 

[mcgyvr]

I'd start with this link and use the phone to call for quotes. But I would make sure you have a detailed requirements/functionality/specifications all documented.

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=custom+electronic+design+engineering+florida

 

[ScottyUK]

If you are considering a moulded plastic enclosure then I hope you've realised that the mould tooling will likely be far more expensive than the laptop and software. Pat Primmer or one of the other guys who frequent forum710 might give you some ballpark figures.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[itsmoked]

There is no reason, in this age, to restrict yourself to Florida companies.

I think you already realize it would be treacherous to do this with a single guy in startup mode. I'd not do this with a noob consultant who's not in the business or you'll be living through a lot of bumps established companies have already worked through. You'll have issues like, "I have a problem and I can't fix it without a oscilloscope. Can you buy me one please." etc., etc.

As for costs, if you're talking about a full on custom enclosure you're talking about $5k just to make a mold. There are also a zillion available enclosures that would probably work just fine and look good. That would avoid the whole molding issue and time.

The design would also need to be done either full-on with FCC testing or an off-the-shelf pre-approved transceiver that only needs a quick check.

You will likely need two overlays done also. They provide the certification information,(usually on the back), and your cool company logo, product name, and the model number.

So look around find a place and talk with them.


Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[mcgyvr]

Start to finish you will not get out of this for under $100K in my opinion. So what's 10K here or there.

 

[Mike247]

Thanks you all for your input. So it seems the advice here is to find a shop to do this from A to Z and not bother with individual contractors.

mcgyvr: That link that types itself is cool! 10K is still a considerable amount even if the whole project ends up costing 100K.

ScottyUK: Yes I realize that. Last time we inquired about it we were told it would cost about 35K to design and produce a platic injection mold.

itsmoked: You are right, and yes he'd probably ask for an oscilloscope and other tools as he works through the project. Also if he finds a job, he might quit this in the middle of the project, which would suck!

 

[itsmoked]

Nothing at all wrong with individual contractors. Often they can move the fastest and are more personable to work with than a larger firm focused on payrolls and leases. A lot of them have had to surmount many of the issues faced in a job of your sort and already have the connections to get them all done.

BTW: 35k for a mold of the size you need, is pretty excessive these days. Unless, you want something really odd like your product in a Klein Bottle.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[MacGyverS2000]

<chuckle> I have to laugh at the designer who says I need a laptop and $10k in software to do what a plug-n-play Wi-Fi chip can do simply by copying the layout usually included in the datasheet.

And he needs you to buy him a laptop? What kind of an engineer doesn't have a computer at home?


Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[Mike247]

MacGyverS2000: This was not the worse of it! I met the guy at 11 in the morning, and when I got close, I smelled alcohol in his breath! He verified my suspicions when we treated him for lunch after the meeting and he ordered a cold beer! Wow!

itsmoked: The enclosure we need is not too complicated. It's about 6"*4"*1" in size. It includes openings for the MSR rail and LCD. Also it needs 'towers' to hold the PCB board, and a battery compartment. Still we heard that plastic injection mold require a lot of manual work and a mechanical engineer, thus the large bill. Maybe there are sources out there that can do it for a more reasonable cost.

My first task though is to find someone (or a company) to design the hardware and work with a mechanical engineer to develop the enclosure.

 

[itsmoked]

Since your numbers are so low I would still do a drive-by study on using an off-the-shelf enclosure. The up-side is just too good to pass up.

There are many sources of electronics enclosures - every conceivable style can be found - standard. They all come with board support bosses and/or card rails. A quick machining pass would open a card swipe slot. The LCD knock out would be easily done the same way.

I typically make a jig for my CNC router that lets me do repetitive jobs like slots, windows, and mounting holes, so, it's very doable.

Finding an OTS enclosure lets you hit the road faster. If the quantities start looking good, or increase, the OTS one can be used as a model, which helps reduce any subsequent mold design and even assists with production pricing.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[nornrich]

Mike,

The design for this type of enclosure should be less then $3k USD and depending on how many units you are making on an annual basis, will give you an idea of the number of mold cavities needed. If you are tooling in China, a single cavity mold for this level of complexity should be in the $4k to $8k region. More cavities and the cost will go up accordingly.

Rich.....

Richard Nornhold, PE

http://www.personna.com