Client Confidentiality?

[eng1ne]

Hi guys,

To explain as briefly as possible; we had a gentleman from a third party presenting to myself and colleagues, about a pension scheme the company intends to put in place. We do not currently have one. The company is obviously the client of this financial consultants.

Upon entering the meeting room, with around 10 people in, I noted everybody had a bound A4 pack. I then received one from the presenter - with no discretion. On the immediate front of the pack were my personal details, age of birth etc. and my SALARY!

Out of inquisition, I glanced at the packs of two of my colleagues to find it wasn't simply coincidence and that the financial details weren't common to all merely as an example - they were tailored to suit the individual. I immediately turned mine face down, though most people were oblivious, and had them face up for all and sundry to see!

The two colleagues' salaries that I did see also raise concerns; I don't think I earn my worth (how many times do we read that on here) and the prospect for me might not be so lucrative.

I am pretty certain that given the lack of discretion on the part of the presenting consultant could cause serious morale issues in a company with around 35 people. I am sure my case is not unique!

I'd be delighted to hear your opinions on the matter!

Thanks in advance!

 

[Ron]

eng1ne...that was highly unprofessional, insulting to each of you, and will certainly create morale problems. I would dismiss such a consultant immediately. Absolutely brainless.

 

[IRstuff]

Sounds like you're a bit overly sensitive, and your consultant is bit under-sensitive.

Unless the consultant actually allowed everyone to see everyone elses salaries, your morale concerns seem a bit overblown.

In the meantime, what do you hope to gain with this question? It's already water under the bridge, is it not? The only thing you can do, and should so, is to make sure that he doesn't do again, there, or anywhere.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[GregLocock]

Been a while since this came up. To whose advantage is it for employees who negotiate their own wages to be kept in the dark as to what everybody else earns?



Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[IRstuff]

But, he CHOOSE to give into temptation and to look, didn't he? Apparently, he didn't care much about other people's privacy, just his own.

And, he kept quiet about it, not even bothering to let is coworker in on the infringement of their privacy.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[MikeHalloran]

Maybe the gaffe was intentional, so as to sow dissatisfaction among the ranks, and indirectly reduce the head count, and pension costs, without having to go through the unpleasantries of involuntary termination.

Okay, I'm paranoid, but I've seen more bizarre things...


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[MartinSr00]

If your consultant did that in a Health Care setting, and the sheet in plain view showed your health information, so that someone could peek at it, it's my understanding that any report of this event would make it a reportable incident requiring state and federal notification. Certain disclosures could result in prison and steep fines -- all for opening your mouth.

I realize that this case is not so severe. But underlying this health privacy law is people's reasonable expectation that their personal information should not be disclosed to just anyone without their approval.

If you complained and got push-back and received anything different than a heart-felt apology and a promise to end the practice, your dealing with people of less than stellar integrity. When dealing with such people, best to keep everything close to your chest and not confuse them with trustworthy people.

Say it's paranoid and extreme -- but that's the way I see it.

 

[SomptingGuy]

What was the reason for telling you your age and salary in the information pack? These are things most people should already know.

We had something similar this week, except that the third party used very simple hypothetical examples to show us how badly our company was about to screw us.

One guy did bring his most recent pay slip in so he could compute his own numbers and then used the percentages in his questions, not actuals.

Going slightly [OT]...

The meeting we were invited to was set up by our recently hired "Compensation and benefits manager". He said his hellos and just before handing over to the third party presenter, mentioned that he would be leaving the organisation soon. So our top management have effectively hired a hatchet-man to do their dirty work and a third party to give it to us, while they hid in a bunker. They called it a "consultation".

- Steve

 

[eng1ne]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the responses!

"Maybe the gaffe was intentional, so as to sow dissatisfaction among the ranks, and indirectly reduce the head count, and pension costs, without having to go through the unpleasantries of involuntary termination."

As bizarre as it does sound, this certainly isn't beyond belief!

IRStuff; with respect, your dismissal of my concerns for morale is not very well informed. The information I gave initially was quite limited, however, I believe I am able to make that observation having worked for the company for three years. Yes, in hindsight, I might have raised the point to those colleagues who were oblivious (isn't hindsight wonderful?); though I certainly didn't think at the time, nor do I now that it was my responsibility to do so. And with reference to my will power which has somehow come into dispute, I looked at my colleagues packs to confirm it wasn't simply a coincidence - though my point is I should never have had the opportunity.

Please don't mistake my prompting a discussion for anything else, I intend to gain nothing but the opinions of respected engineering professionals.

Thanks again guys!

 

[JLSeagull]

All that was required for confidentiality would have been a cover sheet with the employee name. Briefly review the Health Insurance Privacy and Portability Act. Depending upon the information presented you might determine that the consultant violated the act.

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/

I sometimes see cost reports distributed to several groups that reflect the client charges applicable to each employee. Such reports include the salaries. This too is bad form.

 

[jmw]

How cool is it for the company to release personal details to a third party supplier before a contract has been signed and without the employee's consent?

The information may have been necessary once an agreement was signed but most of these companies don't need to do the detail work to present a rosy view of how good their company is as a pensions provider unless this a slam dunk agreement where the employees would actually have no say in who gets to provide their pension plan.

The provider shouldn't need to present peoples data to them in this way anyhow.

I'd say there was some lack of professionalism here.
Whether any of it breeches the local data protection legislation or not is another matter.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[eng1ne]

jmw, that is an excellent point. I had completely overlooked the fact that the company must have passed this information on to the consultant, and thus to a pensions provider...

To clarify, it was a 'slam dunk' agreement else; you're either in or you're not in.

Thanks for the link Seagull; though it is intersting to find out, I don't feel compelled to take it any further than management; if they wish to pursue it, so be it. Though as jmw suggests, the company aren't exactly innocent in this either!

Thanks guys.

 

[JLSeagull]

Perhaps uncool but very normal. The values available for purchase by the employee for many policies (such as the company provided life and especially disability insurance) depends upon the employees salary. Thus it is normal for the insurance provider to receive salary data and to prepare individual packets that show the limits available.

 

[NomLaser]

Yes but they didn't need to present the individual employee's data back to them. They know what they make and to make it so easily viewable shows the company's complete disregard for personal data. If I were an owner and the 3rd party did this, they would be tossed out and not even allowed to present their plan.

 

[pierdesign]

one of two things should have been done:

an officer of your company, accountant, HR, president, should have been at meeting and introduced subject describing personal information used to develop each packet.

The consultant should have done that in lieu of company officer.

Then handed out information.

 

[JLSeagull]

NomLaser said,
"Yes but they didn't need to present the individual employee's data back to them. They know what they make and to make it so easily viewable shows the company's complete disregard for personal data. ..."

As you wrote this on an engineering web site you were surely thinking about some other type people. As an engineer, if management presents something like this many would want to see the basis of the calculations, etc. Perhaps disability can be any value up to 66.6% or limited to multiples of $100 etc. I want to see what they use as the base pay. Perhaps I get a raise on 15 November but the new insurance plan is rolled out 1 November. When I evaluate the cost I would like to see what was used as the base. I have received insurance benefit packets like this thus this would represent my expectations.

However, I would expect the rates and structure to be on about page two or later (not on the cover) and with a font size no larger than 11 characters per inch.

 

[jmw]

It is more usual for these guys to present a glowing example which is all positives.
It is only once you've all signed up and get down to one on one meeting where you discover that for you, life isn't so rosy.

Bad move to hand out material at the beginning of a presentation or everyone will be reading the handouts and not listening to the presenter nor watching the pretty slide show... unless that was intentional.

I can't help having a sneaky suspicion the presenter was new at the game or that this is a new financial services company. Probably some golfing buddies of the boss.
Do you know the history of this company?

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[GregLocock]

Agree JLSeagull, whenever we get long term predictions they are personalised and include our current salary and age.

There again our handouts have cutouts that just show our names through the cover, not the details that everyone is getting so worked up about.



Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[oneintheeye]

I dont understand the fuss, I would love to see what everyone else is paid. understand management having an issue with it.

 

[PeterStock]

But would you want the other guy to know what you make? I may not have a problem with it, but would want that to be my option. I would not want my salary posted for all to see.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

http://www.infotechpr.net