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Climate Sensitivity and What Lewis and Curry 2014 Has to Say About It 12

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rconnor

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Sep 4, 2009
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Ah yes, it’s that time again folks. A paper is released, in this case Lewis and Curry 2014, that says climate sensitivity is on the low end of the spectrum and the “skeptic” community starts banging pots and pans claiming the ACC theory is dead. Well, like most things in the field of climate science, it's not nearly that simple. Let's look at the entire story.

Equilibrium Climate Sensitivity (ECS) and Transient Climate Response (TCR)
Equilibrium Climate Sensitivity (ECS) – the amount the planet will warm in response to a doubling of atmospheric CO2 concentration (the base is usually taken from preindustrial levels of 280 ppm). ECS includes both fast and slow feedbacks, so ECS is not fully realized for decades or centuries after CO2 is held constant.

Transient Climate Response (TCR) – similar to ECS but only includes fast responding feedbacks. In other words, TCR is the temperature rise at the time atmospheric concentrations hit 2x the baseline, not where it will settle out to. As slow responding feedbacks tend to be positive, TCR is smaller than ECS.

These two are not the same and should not be confused. Many “skeptic” arguments prey on this confusion, be careful.

The Body of Knowledge on Climate Sensitivity
First, here’s a good list of the spectrum of peer reviewed literature addressing climate sensitivity. If you actually want to understand the topic (instead of cherry picking things that fit your viewpoint), it’s import to look at the body of work, that’s kinda how science works. Here’s a graphical representation, from AR5 WG1 Fig Box 12.2-1:
[image ]

To claim that a single paper can definitely set climate sensitivity, is false. While on the low side, Lewis and Curry 2014 does sit within the spectrum of other estimates.

Lewis and Curry 2014
Now to the paper itself. Lewis and Curry 2014 (LC14) is very similar to Otto et al 2013 (they both take the energy balance model approach), just with different heat uptake rates and reference periods.

LC14 has a heat uptake rate (0.36 Wm^-2) that is almost half of Otto et al 2013 (0.65 Wm^-2). The uptake rate used in LC14 comes from a single model, not an ensemble mean, and is, surprise, surprise, a very low value (which leads to lower ECS).

The ending reference period (1995-2011) was selected to “avoid major volcanic activity”. Although this seems odd considering Vernier et al. 2011 found that volcanic activity greatly affected the 2000’s. Furthermore, it is well known that the last decade has been a La Nina dominated period which would further add a cooling bias to their ending reference period, and thus artificially lower their ECS and TCR estimates.

Now new evidence (Durack et al 2014) suggests that “observed estimates of 0-700 dbar global warming since 1970 are likely biased low. This underestimation is attributed to poor sampling of the Southern Hemisphere”. Using the results of Durack et al 2014, the ECS would rise (15% according to a tweet from Gavin Schmidt).

The paper makes no mention of Cowtan & Way 2013 which demonstrates and corrects the cooling bias in HadCRUT caused by a lack of coverage in the heavily warming Arctic. Therefore, much of the recent warming which is occurring in the Arctic is unaccounted for in this paper. This would cause an artificially lower value of ECS and TCR.

The paper also ignores Shindell 2014 and Kummer & Dessler 2014 (most likely because they are too recent). Both of these papers highlight the inhomogeneities in aerosol forcing which may cause energy balance models to underestimate ECS and TCR.

Finally, the rather simplistic technique used in LC14 (and Otto et al 2013 as well) ignores all non-linearities in feedbacks and inhomogeneities in forcings. The exclusion of these elements leads to a lowering bias in TCR and ECS. Due to the fact the sample period and technique used introduce lowering biases into the results, LC14 may be useful in establishing the lower bound of sensitivity but in no way offers a conclusive value for the median or best estimate.

It should be noted that the results of Lewis and Curry 2104 implicitly accept and endorse the core of the Anthropogenic Climate Change theory; namely that increases in atmospheric CO2 will result in increases in global temperatures and that feedbacks will amplify the effect. For example, if you feel that the recent rise in global temperatures is due to land use changes and not CO2, then the TCR and ECS to a doubling of CO2 should be near zero. Or, if you feel that "it's the sun" and not CO2 then the TCR and ECS to a doubling of CO2 should be near zero. The recent change in climate is "just natural" and not CO2 you say? Well then TCR and ECS should, again, be near zero. So, if you've found yourself claiming any of the preceding and now find yourself trumpeting the results of LC14 as proof for your side, then you, unfortunately, are deeply confused. If you want to accept LC14's value for TCR of 1.33 K as THE value for TCR (which it isn't), then you also accept that majority of global warming is due to anthropogenic CO2 emissions.

What About Other Papers that Claim Lower Sensitivity?
As I stated from the outset, Lewis and Curry 2014 is hardly the only paper to address climate sensitivity. Beyond that, it’s hardly the only paper to suggest that climate sensitivity is on the lower end of the IPCC spectrum. I’ve addressed a few already but there are more (Lindzen 2001, Spencer & Braswell 2008, etc.). However, almost all of these papers have been found to have some significant flaws that cast doubt on their conclusions. Various peer reviewed rebuttals to these papers are listed below. I’d welcome readers to review the rebuttals and the original authors response to them.
[image ]

...But What if Climate Sensitivity WAS Lower Than Expected
Let’s ignore all this for a second and pretend that, with Lewis and Curry, we can definitively say that climate sensitivity is lower than expected. Then what? Does this completely debunk the ACC theory? Does this mean rising CO2 levels really aren’t a concern? Well, many “skeptics” would say “YES!” but they do so without ever actually examining the issue.

According to Myles Allen, head of the Climate Dynamics group at Oxford:
Myles Allen said:
A 25 per cent reduction in TCR would mean the changes we expect between now and 2050 might take until early 2060s instead…So, even if correct, it is hardly a game-changer…any revision in the lower bound on climate sensitivity does not affect the urgency of mitigation
.

The issue is that, with atmospheric CO2 levels rising as quickly as they are, a lower TCR does not mean anything significant. It just means that the effects will be delayed slightly. So even if “skeptics” were correct in saying that climate sensitivity is definitely at the lower end of the IPCC range (which they’re not), it would have no substantial impact on future global temperatures or the need to control CO2 emissions.

So, Lewis and Curry 2014 is:
1) Inconclusive to definitely say that climate sensitivity is on the low end of the IPCC spectrum
2) The results are suspect and appear to include numerous biases that would lead to lower TCR and ECS
3) Even if it were conclusive and accurate, it would still not suggest that reductions in CO2 emissions are unnecessary. In fact, it adds to the scientific body of knowledge that temperatures will continue to rise to unsafe levels if we continue with the status-quo, just maybe a decade later than other estimates.

(Note: I’ve started this new thread to discuss climate sensitivity specifically. It is an important topic that popped up in another thread and I felt it merited its own discussion. I would, as much as possible, like to keep the conversation on this subject…although this is likely wishful thinking)
 
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duely noted, without changing the sense of the observation ... anomaly suggests something abnormal, "something that deviates from the norm or from expectations".

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
 
rconnor said:
It’s an “anomaly” compared to the baseline. So it’s the exact same thing as a “change relative to some datum”.
If you still don't like the use of the term "anomaly", what can I say, write a letter to the IPCC.
 
I guess the debate is over, it's an "anomaly".

Like the theory that the world is round, there needs to be a time for inspection of the evedence, and counter theory, before you consiter any actions. And this just seems to be a rush because someone just noticed it.
And despite all the figures and facts given, I don't see all the other theories defeted yet.

I do see this Winter is seeming different from the last, so I buy that things might be changing. But is it better or worse, I've heard both.

I hear lava is flowing, will that make a difference?
 
GregLocock said:
Perhaps we merely differ in our definitions, by a model I mean data +assumptions, whether it is homogenizing, rebaselining, or as in the second quote, calculated from surrounding data.
Fair enough. While each temperature data set makes certain assumptions and uses different methods to address infilling and other uncertainties, all data sets are in very close agreement with one another. I will note that the BEST data set was aimed at addressing “issues” with the other data sets from a skeptic point-of-view (Muller and Curry) and their results were also in-line with other data sets. So much so, that it erased many doubts in Richard Muller’s mind surrounding anthropogenic climate change. So if this is an attempt to discredit temperature data sets, it’s misguided. If it’s merely an attempt to highlight the uncertainty, ok.

crank108 said:
I guess the debate is over, it's an "anomaly".
What debate! Anomaly = change from the baseline. Who’s debating this? What’s confrontational about it?

cranky108 said:
I do see this Winter is seeming different from the last, so I buy that things might be changing.
That’s not how this works. Year to year changes mean nothing on their own. Saying “this Winter was warmer/colder than last winter. Therefore climate change is true/false” is nonsense in either direction. Weather variance and climate change are two different things.
 
"I guess the debate is over, it's an "anomaly"." ... just because there's no counter post in something like 2hrs doesn't mean acceptance; just because there's no counter post mean imply acceptance (it probably indicates apathy).

anomaly would be the correct term if the graphs plotted temperature change compared to a non-CO2 enhanced atmosphere ... which would be pretty undefinable (unless we had an alternate universe to play with). to call "temperature change relative some arbitary datum" an anomaly just ascribes a negative context to the change ... but then i guess that's the intended message, so i'll leave this red herring where it is


another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
 
If you are say the debate is not over, then you must not trust that 'Al Gore' is telling the truth.

I contend it may not be an "anomaly", but is unusual, or unexpected, or difficult to explain (Does that make you feel better about it)? So what!!!

This whole thing still seems to be a rush to a conclusion.
 
damnit, that red herring has come back to life !

i think you've missed my point ... about calling a change from a datum as an anomaly. it is more correct IMHO to say "delta temperature" rather than "temperature anomaly".

does anyone know how to kill a zombie ? (for anyone who knows D&D, and i believe there's quite a few of you out there, i know it's a trick question; you can't kill a zombie)

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
 
The guys on "Walking Dead" don't seem to have any trouble killing zombies, so long as there's guns or other weapons.

TTFN
faq731-376
7ofakss

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529

Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
 
"Zombies are already dead." ... exactly, that's why you can't kill them.

"The guys on "Walking Dead" ..." ... yeah, but that's just hollywood ...

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
 
yeah, but it's all Hollywood

In any case, zombies aren't dead either, otherwise there would be no need to keep them from biting you. Rocks are dead, and they generally don't run down the street trying to clobber you.

TTFN
faq731-376
7ofakss

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529

Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
 
what about the rock monster from (the original) star trek ?

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
 
i think so, sounds right

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
 
I don't know about zombies being dead. I've seen a few out begging for money to feed their drug habit.

I've also seen a few rocks tumbling down the highway.
 
Can I ask if anyone is willing to provide a defense of the usefulness of Lewis and Curry 2014 as a "better" estimate for sensitivity? Numerous people used it as the basis for arguing that sensitivity is not as high as expected. Upon closer inspection it contains significant biases (some I would say were done purposefully, while others are just inherent to the method used) that lead to artificially lower sensitivity values. Since that point, no one has offered a word in defense of LC14 (and Harde 2014, for that matter) or their original assertions.

Furthermore, there remains no evidence to support assertions that because sensitivity estimates are dropping over time, the "true" values are at or below the lower end of the IPCC range. Yes, recent energy budget model techniques have lead to lower values but that is mainly due to inherent cooling biases in the technique. Subsequent research only further solidifies the point that these techniques and papers are not appropriate to establish a "best estimate" for sensitivity. The bulk of estimates show no strong correlation of dropping or increasing overtime. What appears true is that estimates are continually in the IPCC range.

Beyond all of this, even if we take LC14's sensitivity as THE value for sensitivity (which is most certainly not true), it actually supports the need mitigation. Using LC14's value for TCR would mean that affects expected to occur in 2050 would, instead, occur in 2060. This is insignificant. Not only does this not, in any way, support the skeptic "do nothing" position, it actually works against it.

However, I feel that this too will be a "zombie" argument. One that has been debunked, never defended, but continually brought up again and again. I'm not asking for agreement, I am asking for a rational defense prior to repeating the same argument. If none exists, then it's possibly time to revisit your original assertions.
 
how do you "defend" one estimate of a quantity over another ? they are "just" two estimates of an unknown. come back in 30 years and we might have a better idea

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
 
rb1957,

I would agree that the sensitivity estimate should not be argued paper-to-paper, method-to-method. When discussing sensitivity, you should incorporate all valid papers and all valid methods. That is exactly what the IPCC has done. That is not what "skeptics" have done. They pick papers like LC14 that match their beliefs and use that single (flawed) paper and single (flawed) method as the basis of their argument that sensitivity is lower than expected. You seem to disagree with this just as much as I do.

But given the fact that some want to use a single method as the basis of their argument, they must demonstrate why that method is superior to all the other methods out there. They must demonstrate why we should throw out the higher estimates and replace it with these lower estimates. They have done no such thing. In fact, the inverse has been demonstrated – that this single method (and single paper) is less valid than other methods for establishing a “best estimate” for climate sensitivity.

Not only have they not supported their viewpoint, they have not defended their (unsupported) viewpoint from criticism. Frankly, I don’t care if they choose to defend their viewpoint or not but it would be disingenuous of them to provide no defense now but then, in the next thread, bring back up this same argument. This would be a “zombie argument”.

(This doesn’t even touch on the fact that even if we accepting the LC14 value, it would not only not support the skeptic “do nothing” position, it would actually work against it. This “zombie argument” is wrong on so many levels…but nevertheless, I fully expect to hear it again and again and again.)
 
Do you not also need to look at why the higher estimate models also have biases?

In your first analysis you gave just as much weight to a 1970s paper as to the result of 40 years with better data and better techniques. If you could tell me which of those data points was L&C I'll knock it out of the study and repeat it.

A point made previously still stands. if two analyses show estimates that do not overlap, they are not agreeing, they are disagreeing. At best one of them is right, it is possible that neither are right, what can't happen is that they are both right.



Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
 
You are arguing that the sensitivity is on the lower end of the scale because recent energy budget model techniques say so. What evidence have you brought forth to support that? Keeping in mind your evidence also needs to demonstrate why other techniques, which lead to higher values, are unsupported.

If I was saying the paper X says that TCR is 3.5 deg C, therefore sensitivity is higher than the IPCC expects, then you’d have a point. I’d have to explain why this method is more valid than the other methods.

However, I am not. I’m arguing that there is no evidence to suggest that the sensitivity should definitively be on the lower end of the scale. I’ve demonstrated this by showing that the estimates over time show no strong correlation of trending up or down. I’ve also gone one step further to demonstrate that the single technique you cling to that supports your position is flawed.

With regards to removing LC14 from the analysis (and Otto et al and Lewis 2013), it would do very little to improve the correlation, which is the crux of the matter. We’d still be left with a clump of data, some lower, some higher, most of which sits well within the IPCC range. This would continue to work against your assertion.

No, we don't have two equally valid estimates. What we have is a single technique that has been shown to contain significant flaws that lead to an artificially low sensitivity vs. the hundreds of other studies, spreading over numerous different techniques that, when taken together, support (well form, really) the IPCC range. The latter is much more valid than the former.

But your post was nothing more than an attempt to dodge the question. Do you have anything to defend your assertion that LC14 and other papers using the same energy budget model technique are superior to other techniques and papers such that it would suggest that climate sensitivity is definitively lower than previously estimated?

Your assertion, your requirement to support it.
 
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