Company "purchased" Certifications 5

[apiguy]

Please advise:
My company insisted that I take professional level certifications at their expense. Now that I have passed the examinations, they are trying to force me into un-ethical behavior by issuing certifications to un-qualified persons in our organization. If I choose to leave the company, am I legally responsible for re-imbursement of the expenses pertaining to the classes ?

The APIGUY....

 

[ewh]

I would think that if it were not YOUR choice to leave the company but theirs, that you would not be liable. $20K is enough to make it worthwhile to consult with a lawyer.

 

[BJC]

RDK and APIGUY
I am pretty sure I have understood this from the start.
APIGUY is being asked to do something wrong.
One of the answers is to quit his job.
If he does it may cost him $20K.
The answer is ( as most of us agree) is see a lawyer.
The answer should not be quit if its $500, but for $20K stay there a year.
My experience with these situations is that if your being asked to do something illeagel or questionable, they will correct the situation or let you off the hook.

Having someone bail out over a quality is also a black mark on the companys record. It's possible that someone is the company dosen't know what they are doing or there morally challenged. If it's the former there's an oportunity to help them, if it's the latter bail out and let them try to get the $20K. In most states they cannot keep you last weeks wages without a court order.

To relate this to some of the other threads on this forum. If APIGUY is a PE and this goes to court his opinions and conclusions carry a lot more weight.

 

[IRstuff]

As a general rule, if the training is company sponsored and mandatory, it's SOL if the employee bails for any reason, particularly if the training occurred during regular worktime, and you were paid salary for the those hours spent.

The items that fall into expenses that the company reimburses as part of the employee benefits such as moving expenses or educational reimbursements are different. There is usually some time limit under which the employee would have to pay the expenses back to the company, such as 1 year for moving expense.

TTFN

 

[apiguy]

Not a P.E.....but wished I was. I am employed as a "professional services" contractor.

The APIGUY....

 

[RDK]

APIGUY

I don’t know the status of the paper that was presented to you before the training. It could be taken as becoming part of your employment contract and because you went on the training after receiving the paper you have accepted the change to your employment contract.

On the other hand, it could not have any meaning. Would the company have fired you had you refused the training? If so then you had no choice other than to take the training and the paper may not have any effect.

I would think that any lawyer could argue either side depending on who is paying his bills.

The value is significant enough that you should get legal advice. Employment law varies greatly between jurisdictions and only someone knowledgeable about the current law and court cases in your area can properly advise you. This does not sound like a case for a general practice lawyer; you may want a referral to someone who specializes in employment law.

Do you know for certain that you could be fired for refusing to certify unqualified people?

Has any specific threat been made or is it your own impression based on knowledge of the individuals involved?

If you haven’t already done so make a chronological record of all conversations and events leading up to this point and update it as soon as something else happens. Names, dates, times places and events discussed should all be recorded. (Keep it on your person while at work and not electronically on company computers.) This may come down to a he said/she said situation and having a written record made at the time will help support your version of events.

You may want to make your case to management that you are uncomfortable certifying people who you do not feel qualified and that you would be more than willing to help them become qualified and then would gladly certify them. Write out what you are going to say and then follow it up with a memo recording what you discussed. Give a copy to the managers involved and keep a copy for yourself (offsite of course.) Keep copies of any written replies etc.

Good luck and let us know how things turn out for you.



Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[funnelguy]

I am aware of clauses in employment agreements that when challenged were deemed unenforceable by judges. Just because you signed a paper doesn't mean the contract is legal. Retain counsel. Hopefully you retained a personal copy of the paper they had you sign before taking the course. If not, seek advice of counsel before making your intentions known to the company.

 

[IFRs]

My read on this is: If you leave voluntarily, you pay. If they fire you, you owe them nothing. If you leave voluntarily because they are asking you do something unethical and you can prove it, you will owe nothing but it may cost you some legal fees. My advice is: get their unethical request in writing and you will probably not have much in legal fees.