Considering Career Change to Medical Field 12

[m_ridzon]

I'm in my mid-40s and am an established engineer. MSME degree. P.E. I'm paid well and don't really have any complaints about engineering. Married w/two adolescent kids. No mortgage, no debt. I have an itch to go to medical school to become a plastic surgeon. This seems like a very severe pivot in my life and I know it would not be easy. But the itch is there. I have had an interest in that world for years, but only recently did a light bulb go on with an idea to become a surgeon. It would be roughly 4yrs of med school and 6yrs of residency. I'd have to save up the cash beforehand, since we don't do debt. I would likely have to quit working to do med school full-time. We would have to live off my wife's income, which will reduce our lifestyle significantly but not be impossible. My main question is whether this is wise or not, considering my age, my comfy engineering position, and the severity of the pivot in my life. I'm curious if anyone else here can relate or has a story to share about a similar experience.

 

[IRstuff]

Certainly, people have done so; I went to an ophthalmologist once, who had been an EE in his previous life. Nevertheless, you are looking at a minimum of 10 years before you can fully practice, which leaves you with barely 10 years to practice before normal retirement age and more importantly, a limited number years before your physical abilities and dexterity potentially get in the way of doing surgery.

Also, depending on what subspecialty you are looking at, there may be fellowship requirements post-residency to be board-certified, which is another 1 to 2 years

https://www.americanboardcosmeticsu...ed,your cosmetic surgery fellowship training.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[SWComposites]

What are your wife's thoughts on this idea?
Realistically how many years to save up the cash for medical school? add that onto the time frame.
Sounds like you will be close to 60 before you are into actual practice.
Have you discussed this idea with a surgeon?

 

[SWComposites]

Another thing - do you have all of the prerequisites to get into medical school? Probably need a bunch of biology courses, etc.

 

[m_ridzon]

What are your wife's thoughts on this idea?

I have not shared it with her yet. We have a weekend alone soon. If the itch hasn't faded by then, I intend to broach the topic.

Realistically how many years to save up the cash for medical school? add that onto the time frame.

Yes I imagine that will take a few years as well. I need to think about that too.

Have you discussed this idea with a surgeon?

No I haven't. But after talking with my wife, if it gets to a "serious" stage, I think your idea is very good.

Another thing - do you have all of the prerequisites to get into medical school? Probably need a bunch of biology courses, etc.

I reviewed my local alma mater for its "pre-med" curriculum. My engineering work overlaps quite a bit, but there is still a good share of biology stuff missing that I'd have to do.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Two of my classmates in engineering school (I graduated in 1971) went on to medical school and became doctors. While I've lost track of one of them, the other I'm in regular contact with and while he's a year older than me, which would make him 76, he's still working full time in a hospital in the Seattle area. He's a diagnostic specialist, working mostly with female cancer patients. And while he's given notice to hospital management that he intends to retire eventually, he has so far only cut back to something like 50 hours a week. I've been kidding him that he needs to work as he has actually had two families. Children by his first wife are now grown and he's a grandparent a couple times over. But he also has a son by his second wife who's just now graduating from high school. In his spare time, he helps coach his son's swim team, but now that he's graduating and is probably going to attend college on an athletic scholarship, he's probably looking forward to slowing down a bit more.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[m_ridzon]

@johnrbaker, this is great feedback! Having followed the world of plastic surgery for many years, which is probably where this itch came from, I can think of several renowned plastic surgeons well into their 60s and even 70s that still practice every day.

 

[dik]

I've been unemployed a couple of times during my career, and the first time was for nearly a year. It was then that I realised that I should have gone into medicine. I think I would have had as much 'fun'. A few people have cautioned otherwise. In hindsight, I would not recommend anyone go into engineering. It's one of the poorest paying professions, with one of the highest liabilities. I enjoy the stuff I do, and after 50 years am still doing it, but in hindsight...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[SWComposites]

You are in your mid 40's with teenage kids and you are suddenly going to spring this wild idea out of the blue on your wife now? Good luck!! Let us know how the weekend goes.

 

[IRstuff]

I realised that I should have gone into medicine. I think I would have had as much 'fun'. A few people have cautioned otherwise. In hindsight, I would not recommend anyone go into engineering.

If you go into a specialty, you will do better, but a straight family doctor doesn't necessarily make that much; I've out grossed my family doctor wife. If you become more of a supervising doctor, you could do much better, even in family medicine, but the risks run much higher since you'd have to hire nurse practitioners and physicians' assistants to do that, but their lesser training puts their risks on you, since you sign off on their charts. While the risks might be, in absolute terms, lower than structural, they are non-zero and many doctors have gotten pretty much everything stripped away from them, so you'd need to own no assets to protect yourself. Note that family medicine also comes with a load of unpaid work; you can't charge patient charts to anyone, that comes out of whatever payment, copays and insurance. you get. The other challenge is the complexity of insurance, since you have to bill insurance to get paid, and they are the worst. Some insurance companies will arbitrarily reject invoices routinely, knowing that most doctors can't afford to spend time chasing deadbeat insurance companies. You'd have to hire a really good biller just to make sure all your claims get paid.

As for "engineering," it's a broad term, so there are lots of disciplines that aren't necessarily as constrained by renumeration. I think I did reasonably well, and as an industrially exempt engineer, I wasn't subject to lawsuit possibilities.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[m_ridzon]

You are in your mid 40's with teenage kids and you are suddenly going to spring this wild idea out of the blue on your wife now? Good luck!! Let us know how the weekend goes.

Thank you for that candor. My gut tells me there is a little snark in the comment, but hopefully I'm wrong. With that in mind, I can let you know that our marriage is plenty fortified enough to digest these types of tough conversations without ruining a weekend. Heaven knows, we have had plenty of tough conversations over other wild ideas. I merely intend to present it as an "hey, I have this idea and I'm not sure where I stand on it yet. Will you help me talk through it and tell me what you honestly think?" She would be over the moon to entertain the conversation.

In hindsight, I would not recommend anyone go into engineering. It's one of the poorest paying professions, with one of the highest liabilities.

I suppose everyone's journey is different. For me personally, I don't have many complaints about my current engineering compensation. I am comfortable with it. I could retire nicely with it, but in engineering I am sort of feeling a lack or purpose and meaning.

For anyone else reading, I want to go on record and be clear though...I'm not pursuing plastic surgery for money, fame, or fortune. I genuinely have an interest in the subject itself. So my quandary doesn't have much to do with the pursuit of money at all. I want to help people look the best version of themselves that they want to be.

If you go into a specialty, you will do better, but a straight family doctor doesn't necessarily make that much; I've out grossed my family doctor wife. If you become more of a supervising doctor, you could do much better, even in family medicine, but the risks run much higher since you'd have to hire nurse practitioners and physicians' assistants to do that, but their lesser training puts their risks on you, since you sign off on their charts. While the risks might be, in absolute terms, lower than structural, they are non-zero and many doctors have gotten pretty much everything stripped away from them, so you'd need to own no assets to protect yourself. Note that family medicine also comes with a load of unpaid work; you can't charge patient charts to anyone, that comes out of whatever payment, copays and insurance. you get. The other challenge is the complexity of insurance, since you have to bill insurance to get paid, and they are the worst. Some insurance companies will arbitrarily reject invoices routinely, knowing that most doctors can't afford to spend time chasing deadbeat insurance companies. You'd have to hire a really good biller just to make sure all your claims get paid.

This was great feedback. Fortunately, many aesthetic plastic surgeons don't get involved with insurance at all (that group would include me if I get there one day). I'm seeking aesthetic cosmetic surgery, which is usually "pay out of pocket." And if approached by someone having insurance, I'd turn them away, simply because I have no desire to deal with it. Typically the good plastic surgeons have more than enough pipeline to turn away those insurance jobs.

 

[JohnRBaker]

I've been unemployed a couple of times during my career, and the first time was for nearly a year.

In 1962, I got my first regular paying job when I was 15-years old, working in a meat market. Except for my first year in college, and about three weeks when I changed jobs in 1980, until I retired in January 2016, I was never without a regular job. I realize that that might be rare by today's standard, until I look at our oldest son's situation. He's 53-years old, and except for four-years in the Army, he's been working for the same company since he was a junior in high school, when he started as a grill chef at a local seafood restaurant. Today he's the brand executive for that same concept, responsible now for all of the restaurants in the country.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[hokie66]

In addition to points already made, consider your value to society. Engineers are essential, while many of us would consider plastic surgery to be a blight, if cosmetic surgery is your intent.

 

[m_ridzon]

In addition to points already made, consider your value to society. Engineers are essential, while many of us would consider plastic surgery to be a blight, if cosmetic surgery is your intent.

That's a good point. Although it should be obvious, I didn't think of it.

 

[dik]

John... I was about 14 or 16 and had 3 paper routes... I saved up $150 to buy a single shot .22 cal Walther target rifle... was a pile of money back then, but I was seriously into targets...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[IRstuff]

I got laid off from a single summer job three times that summer. It was loads of fun; they made video games, and part of the summer involved troubleshooting a Pong game.

So I literally got paid to play, since you have to play the game to find out what was wrong, right?

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[CWB1]

I've had several pivots in my career. Tradesman as an owner and employee, military, engineering, now a govt regulator. Nervousness, doubt, and second-guessing are normal before, during, and even long after the change. I've wondered if I could pivot and succeed, then wondered years later if a past career could've been more successful despite the fact that all were very successful. I've also found three separate revs/versions of each - 1. what you think the job will be pre-pivot, 2. what the job is for a few years, and 3. what the job is after the honeymoon wears off. The fun part for me has been trying to guess which stereotypes are true and which are grossly wrong - I never expected engineers to such nerds, also didnt expect a top 10% salary to increase significantly with the move from engineering to govt. IMHO owning a trade business had the highest wealth potential, the military was the most satisfying, engineering the most enjoyable, and working for govt the highest pay. Understanding your motivations and the fact that they change is important.

Aside from lost time/cost of education, worth considering is the worst-case scenario that you pivot, hate medicine, and want to come back to engineering. What would that entail? If your current employer didnt hire you back would you have to take a big pay cut, move house, change industries, or make another big change? Is that reality worth the risk to you? If so, best of luck in medicine. If not, best of luck in engineering.

 

[m_ridzon]

I've had several pivots in my career. Tradesman as an owner and employee, military, engineering, now a govt regulator.

Very ironic. My life has followed a similar track...military, tradesman (auto mechanic), engineering, and whatever is next. Very neat!

Nervousness, doubt, and second-guessing are normal before, during, and even long after the change. I've wondered if I could pivot and succeed, then wondered years later if a past career could've been more successful despite the fact that all were very successful. I've also found three separate revs/versions of each - 1. what you think the job will be pre-pivot, 2. what the job is for a few years, and 3. what the job is after the honeymoon wears off. The fun part for me has been trying to guess which stereotypes are true and which are grossly wrong - I never expected engineers to such nerds, also didnt expect a top 10% salary to increase significantly with the move from engineering to govt. IMHO owning a trade business had the highest wealth potential, the military was the most satisfying, engineering the most enjoyable, and working for govt the highest pay. Understanding your motivations and the fact that they change is important.

Aside from lost time/cost of education, worth considering is the worst-case scenario that you pivot, hate medicine, and want to come back to engineering. What would that entail? If your current employer didnt hire you back would you have to take a big pay cut, move house, change industries, or make another big change? Is that reality worth the risk to you? If so, best of luck in medicine. If not, best of luck in engineering.

Your post was extremely insightful, relevant, and helpful. Thanks for sharing. It definitely triggered some things to think about. Yes, I've definitely thought about the 3 stages you outlined and wondered what it will be like when the honeymoon wears off.

 

[SlideRuleEra]

I genuinely have an interest in the subject itself...
I want to help people look the best version of themselves that they want to be.

Compromise, go into biomechanical engineering in that field.

 

[Christine74]

Maybe I'm just plain boring but undergoing a complete career makeover when you're in your 40s sounds really strange to me, especially you've apparently already put decades of effort into your current career path and you don't have any complaints about your current job. All because of an "itch"? Not trying to be rude but is it possible that you have Bipolar Disorder, ADHD, or something other condition that makes you act impulsively?

Another thing to consider if you took the plastic surgery route is that you would be competing with people 20-25 years younger than you and most of them will probably be using Adderall, Ritalin, or other stimulants to help them study.


-Christine