Contract or Hand shake? 4

[davidinindy]

I think I know what the overwhelming repsonse to this will be, but figure'd I sk anyway.
I am going to work on contract for a small-town company 3 miles down the road. The owner is just a "good ol' boy".
I asked him if he had a standard contract form, or if I should supply it.
He seemed offended slightly, and said his other contract guy is just working on a handshake.
I really think he's an honest guy, and will pay me what we agree to, but have had bosses back out of things they promised me verbally in the past.
Would I come across as a hardazz if I forced him to sign a contract? Would it affect the trust factor right from the start? My contract is pretty long and drawn out with many things that really don't mean much to this position. Should I come up with a simplified version so as not to overwhelm him?
I want the job, but don't want to come off as untrusting or anal.
Anyone else working on a "handshake"?

David

 

[ornerynorsk]

You don't have to keep an honest man honest, and a dishonest man cannot be made honest. Either way, it's a tough spot to be in. This is where instinct comes into play.

 

[PhilBW]

I live and work in a small town too, and can empathize with your situation. If I were you I would still write up a very simple contract with only the basic terms of your agreement. Even if both parties are extremely honest, there are often misunderstandings which are no one's fault, but which cause serious problems anyway. These are almost always eliminated if everything is in writing.

There are also dishonest people who play the "good ol' boy" part very well, and will screw you if they get the chance.

 

[JAE]

PhilBW is right. I would suggest you at least write up a scope of services for what you understand that you are to do. Then include a final sentence stating that, "for the above items, I understand that I will be compensated for a fee of $x."

Send it to him saying that you just want to make sure that you understand what he wants so there's no confusion. That is essentially what a contract is for anyway.

Even if he doesn't sign anything, you have delivered to him the scope and compensation so a court of law would see that as certainly an acknowledgement of intent. And that carries a great deal of more weight in court than a handshake.

 

[casseopeia]

Apologize profusely and tell him that it's required by your E & O carrier. That way you can blame it on the big bad insurance company.

Just remember, the contract isn't for when things go right. It's for when things go wrong.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[davidinindy]

Thanks for all of the input.
I am a pretty trusint poerson, but in todays cut-throat business environment, I've learned to be cautious.
I think I'll make a one-page simplified version without all of the legal lingo. Casseopeia... Good idea... I might go for that one.

David

 

[waskillywabbit]

Whether he is "offended" or not...without a contractual agreement you are setting yourself up to get shafted if things go wrong. It would be great if everyone could be trusted and it is sad that one cannot assume that everyone is trustworthy, but err on the side of being cautiosly offensive, make him sign a contract. It is BUSINESS not personal, thus treat it as such. It sounds like your gut has already told you what you need to do. Keep us posted as to his response to your contract.

Good luck.

Brian

 

[TheTick]

Sensible people conduct themselves sensibly, and trustworthy people don't give that "trust me" smile.

No contract, no work.

 

[RDK]

I’ve worked for a firm operated by one of my oldest and best friends.

We had a written contract.

If anything had happened to either one of us then there was a record of our agreement for our successors to follow.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[MikeHalloran]

I accepted a job with some of my compensation 'deferred'.

The IRS has strange rules about the subject; basically, if there's a contract, you have to pay income tax on income that you haven't received. I.e., there must be 'substantial risk of forfeiture'. So I elected to do it on a handshake.

Things change.

The now former employer claims to recall discussing the subject, but insists that no agreement was reached. I.e., the compensation has been deferred until Hell freezes over.

In hindsight, I would have been better off with a contract.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[crossframe]

If licensed, check out the PE laws. I just finished reading the newsletter from the PE board of one the states in which I'm licensed. There were quite a few violations of the PE laws because licensees did not have a written contract and/or scope of work. Each one had an associated disciplinary action. You can use this as one more "big, bad, impersonal PE board won't let me..."

 

[redgdon]

I find it difficult to believe that anyone would or even consider working without having a formal written contract.

Trust no one. Sure, give someone the benefit of the doubt, but don't do it in a situation that could affect you finacial stability.

 

[Beggar]

I'd not pose it to him as a "contract" per se but rather just an effort to put into writing your prior meeting of the minds just to be sure that you're both thinking the same things.

The truth is that verbal communications can be difficult and even if you're both honest, misunderstandings and disagreements can result.

Putting it in writing gives you both a chance to review it and make sure you're in agreement about the specific terms.

It doesn't need to be a 14-page contract like the one my employer handed to me...

--------------------
Bring back the HP-15

http://www.hp15c.org

--------------------

 

[vooter]

Legal |-VAST GULF-| Ethical.

Get a written contract, it's business, not friendship.

 

[RDK]

If you simply send a letter outlining your understanding of the working conditions and terms and if these are not refuted then this is a binding contract.

It would especially be binding if the other side followed some of the terms. i.e. paid you for the first month’s work at the stated rate, this would be seen as acceptance of the terms and all the other terms would be seen as part of the contract and enforceable.



Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[epoisses]

Agree. In no case work without a contract because the other party doesn't want one for whatever reason.

 

[davidinindy]

I'm on my way out the door with a one page "work agreement". Another reason I need one is to show proof of income since we are getting ready to refinance our home. Figure I'd use that as an excuse.
Hope this contract becomes a full time job. I couldn't ask for an easier commute (except to a home office.) 3 miles thru my neighborhood with no chance of a traffic jam on the way.

David

 

[GregLocock]

I like Rick's solution, it is not confrontational, it makes things clear, it may even serve as a basis for further clarification.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[Heckler]

David,

I think I like Tick's response.....I took a job without an offer letter once and lucky for me the owner was a man of his word. He owned the company and was the force behind all decisions. If you make this deal on a hand shake just make sure he doesn't have his fingers crossed on his left hand. Was that data I sent you of any use to you? Best of luck

 

[davidinindy]

Yes, I tweaked it to my needs, but then decided to go with a much less formal agreement form I downloaded and tweaked.
I didn't get a chance to approach him with it today, but will try tomorrow.
I worked a half day today, and things went pretty good. Seem like pretty good guys I will be working with. They are much more easy-going than the last company I worked for.

David