Contractors Using Fasteners with No ICC-ES Report 1

[bigmig]

I came across this company supplying my contractor with fasteners on a big project.

http://www.wbsmontana.com/interactive/

These guys basically buy these sweat shop fasteners, don't get any code approvals or testing, and then sell these things for cheap.
They are basically chinese fakes, no racial disrespect intended (sorry SJW's).

Unfortunately, you discover them on your job after a question comes up about their use....so heads up to anyone doing work in the western US.
It would be good to put a note on your plans saying that all fastener must be ICC-ES approved.

 

[chris3eb]

Not having an ICC-ES report doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of quality. ICC-ES reports are very expensive and if a company caters to a certain industry, it doesn't make sense to get ICC-ES reports. Having said that, it looks like their screws actually do have a report (ICC-ES 3534).

 

[Ron]

bigmig....based on the link you provided, the company only provides two types of fasteners....some light duty, general purpose wood screws that probably would not be used for anything except decking or similar applications; and Tapcons. Tapcons have ICC-ES reports and the others are probably not intended for significant structural use.

If you are the structural engineer of record, YOU specify the fasteners and expect the contractor to submit documents for your review and approval. If you haven't done this, then the contractor is free to use whatever he wants.

Why are you "finding" their use after the fact? Wasn't an appropriate review protocol followed?

 

[wannabeSE]

IAMPMO ES is an alternative to ICC ES. But, I think ICC is suing IAPMO.

I agree with Ron about specifying fasteners. During design, I also review the MEP specs to make sure they are up to speed on anchors (and seismic bracing criteria).

 

[bigmig]

The ICC-ES report provides the connector capacity. Without that, how do you know what the connector capacity is? Also, I will just cut to the chase and say that the term "significant structural use" is way to generic. That is why the fasteners need to have manufacture supplied load capacities.....what is significant to Ron may be insignificant to me etc.

I'm not seeing any ICC ES report for these screws chris3eb.....where are you looking? I'm looking at these guys:

http://www.wbsmontana.com/portfolio_cats/screws/

I called the company to find it, or any documentation providing a shear/tension value, thinking I was just looking in the wrong spot, and they acknowledged that there are no capacity values as of yet.

In regards to being the responsible specifier, I agree I need to change some notes and move review of selected fasteners to the start of the job. I purposefully try to avoid specifying specific manufacture products, instead opting for a general specification so the project can have some flexibility in terms of finding the most cost effective alternative. In this case, that product was an unverified, Chinese knock off.....

Regardless, my point of this post is to point out that who this product is so others can beware, and to acknowledge that I need to improve my own product review process.

 

[chris3eb]

bigmig,
It's the first link on this page:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ICC-ES+3534

 

[bigmig]

chris3eb,

That link doesn't work.......it pulls up a random google search site.

If you do find the ICC-ES report on those screws (

http://www.wbsmontana.com/portfolio_cats/screws/)

you should call Big Timber fasteners and let them know that thousands of their hard earned dollars went towards a report stating values for their screws
because apparently they are unaware they have it based on my phone call with them.

 

[europipe]

bigmig, the link provided by Chris works for me, You just have to have patience

 

[chris3eb]

bigmig,

That was my snarky way of saying you should have Googled the ICC ES Report number that I listed (that link brings up the Google search results). If you did google it, you would have ended up here:

http://www.icc-es.org/Reports/pdf_files/load_file.cfm?file_type=pdf&file_name=ESR-3534.pdf

 

[bigmig]

copy that.

 

[msquared48]

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)