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Crankshaft/timing belt pulley interface 6

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n85

Electrical
Apr 8, 2010
17
I am interested in understanding the reasons for failure of a woodruff key joining a crankshaft to the timing belt pulley. This has happened twice on the same engine and I would like to find a reliable solution.

The engine in question is a (late 80's) Japanese 1.3 litre inline four with dohc and direct hydraulic tappets.

The key originally wore asymetrically as if it were taking an abnormal load in only one direction of rotation, that is it was changing into a Z-shape as sketched below. There was corresponding wear on the pulley and shaft where they contacted the worn parts of the key and all corners were rounded since the key was rocking in its seat (with the ensuing cam/ignition timing variation). The pulley inner diameter was enlarged and the pulley could wobble on the shaft but the shaft was not worn significantly. The accessories pulley which bolts onto this pulley was not significantly damaged.

Code:
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/________|

The shaft keyway was enlarged using EDM, a new key was ground and a good pulley fitted.

After less than 20000km we've had to remove the timing belt and the same problem has happened. The key is not as worn as previously but the pulley ID is up by ~0.7mm. Shaft OD is effectively unchanged since flipping the pulley over onto the undamaged side it is tight(the pulley edge protruded slightly more than the shaft). The bolt retaining the pulley onto the shaft was loose and threads were damaged).

When trying to find the cause a local machinist asked about AC but the car doesn't have it. The accessories pulley seems to be a damper with a rubber ring - could this be the culprit? There was an issue with the alternator being slightly misaligned from the drive pulley but this was addressed at the time a new key was fitted.

Did anyone here encounter anything similar? Any suggestions to avoid another failure in a year's worth of driving?

I would try to use threadlock on the shaft-pulley interface but I am not sure whether it is appropriately strong...

I have seen similar damage on two other engines of roughly similar age - an inline three from the same manufacturer (but not the same engine family) and another inline three from another Japanese manufacturer.

N
 
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Brian,

That is quite true for the 4 cyl TDI. Unfortunately not true on the I5 (although part about the cam sprocket is correct). Wish it was....! Don't know about the V6 TDI - I've not worked on one.

Nick
 
The large bolt cranked tight is a Hail Mary cost savings approach... <LOL>
 
With torsionals on a 3 or 4 cyl. engine that may NOT be enough... <LOL>
 
For the priest that heard my confessions when I was still young enough to be gullible enough, three Hail Marys and one Our Father was always enough for any sins, crimes or whatever else I managed to get up to.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
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With all the talk of "over-torque" "bigger bolt" and "interference fit"...please tell me that none of you has ever installed a flywheel on a Mini !

Rod
 
Oh yeah..... they can be aggrevating little monkeys! Getting them off the taper being the main challenge. It's been a while since I worked on a Mini - can't say I'm missing 'em though!

Nick
 
They are definitely unwilling to let go of the crankshaft! Had a beaten up Metro a couple of yers back, bought with a compression leak and managed to run (hard!) for a few months. I was going to change the block since I had a spare but had to give up because of the flywheel.

On the original topic, the car is running again. I cleaned up the edges of the keyway, had a key and a new washer made up, refreshed the tapped hole in the snout. That was one hell of a job with the engine in place - the car was pretty far from home. We assembled with permanent loctite between shaft and pulley and mineral oil on the bolt threads and tightened to "this feels a lot" (I need to buy a torque wrench, I know!)

I'll check the torque when the new timing belt arrives in a couple of weeks and can work somewhere more convenient.

Thanks for all the help!
 
Where do you suppose the timing belt pulley ended up compared to the cranksh'ft TDC ?
 
What do you mean by that?
 
I have no idea what the term SFA means, but if tmoose meant "how far is camshaft timing from nominal" I haven't measured anything.

When the keyway was enlarged a year and a half ago the timing pulleys ended up offset a few degrees - I'd guess a few (less than 5) crankshaft degrees advanced with respect to nominal. this was because the key was stepped an extra 2mm on the trailing side, but the keyway was enlarged a little less than 2mm on the trailing side with the difference on the leading side.
 
hereza link to some Results of shifting a stock 4 cyl Volvo cam a bit either way from the popular, but to my mind optimistic and technically hollow (not measured) "straight up."


On a 1.25 inch diameter crank snout 1 degree ~ 0.011"

If it runs well I probably would not care, but I like to think I'd make an effort to make measurements to estimate what I'd done, in case I did not like what happened. I check cam timing to some extent with every timing belt change, rather than relying on either the accuracy of the factory machining or sprocket etc markings, or my skill at aligning them.
 
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