Creating steering that feels alive 1

[Pcar928]

Cars such as the original Lotus Elan, the Ferrari F40, the early non-assisted NSX come to mind when I think steering feedback. The sort of feedback that has the steering wheel wrigling and writhing with nuances of info from the tires and road. The more I look into the subject the more it's made to seem like a black art to come up with that sort of steering feel. Just copy another car that has characteristics you like and hope for the best.

I have looked at alignment specs and such but you can't really draw conclusions soley on that. I understand the effects that pneumatic trail and the various offsets in the steering axis has in a static case, however are there other aspects to this sort of feel that are dynamic? Say from shocks transfering loads around (since no road is perfectly smooth) and changing the steered wheels P trail? Or maybe the force vector of the road against the tire acting around the steering axis varying direction slightly with oscillations of slip angle? Both of which can be connected so maybe a combination. Or maybe something else entirely?
I would just like to hear what some of those in the know have to say about it.

 

[JohnLear]

Greg,
I'm sure there's a lot in what you're saying, and I understand that the game physics model must needs be a rather crude over-simplification of the almost infinite complexity of reality.

The lack of any meaningful feel (with a simulator steering wheel, not a pad like the kids use, because I'm old...) or other non visual feedback whatsoever is of course not going to make things any easier, but I'm sure the game lag isn't a figment of my imagination.

My road car has more immediate response than any game I've yet played, and my race kart's reactions are indistinguishable (by me) from being instantaneous (game lag is very noticable once you realise it's there). My race kart is much easier to drive than any virtual reality car I've tried...

The game lag creates a negative feedback, i.e. 'driver' sees a 'car / track' problem, driver reacts to problem (taking X time), electronics process driver reaction (more time), driver reaction appears on screen by which time driver is overcorrecting with the overcorrection still to come down the pipeline.

The driver now has to correct the overcorrection, but can't really tell when the correction is sufficient because the extent of the problem is not evident at the time the correction must be made. The 'car' ends up in a virtual 'tank slapper' of ill timed corrections and often 'crashes'.

In my experience these games need to be played with some degree of accurate pre-emption, maybe not too disimilar to driving a ferociously powerful but laggy turbo car...? It can be overcome of course, my PB at the virtual Forza version of the Nordscliffe is 6'18", but I 'died' at least a hundred times to do that. In the real world I'd have only died once...

Sorry, getting way off topic.

 

[evelrod]

Sorry guys. I tried one of these sophisticated race car simulators a while back. I really suck at the effort. It is sooo NOT realistic and the "feed back" just is not there in real time. I tended to spend more time at "agricultural racing" than track time.

Now, on the other hand, a few years ago I tried my had at one of the aircraft, flight simulator, combat games. My favorite "ride" was a Messerschmidt BF 109G...Racked up some 200+ "kills" in it and only got shot down a few times. That was fun for a while, but it became boring and with my new PC, all the "flight simulator gear" is not compatible. It was a great time waster.

Rod

 

[TCAir]

GregLocock, I didn't realize that I insulted anyone in my post. I just tried to give a quick synopsis and a point of contact for information without writing a diatribe. I tend not to give long explanations without data. Hence the "I don't have my notes." The only facts given was the OEMs lack of understanding of what was going on. That, unfortunately, comes with my interactions with 2 OEMs on this and other projects. Given these two OEMs position in the market, I would look at them as superior manufactures.

For the record it was an in house built sim, and not a PlayStation game. I wish it was a PlayStation game, would have been a lot easier. This unit has been used to verify steering settings for cars on the road today, you might even be driving one. Where the slight for a motor sports degree came from I will never know. For the record, BSME, and I am in the Marine field now. EIT and currently studying under a PE.

Please think twice before you post an attacking message.



Engineering has always been my love, but it ended up being my second career...

 

[TCAir]

PS.

cibachrome's response is very accurate. The only point of contention is the OEM's knowledge.

Every single point was a problem to overcome in the project. We did an SUV vs a sports car.

I think it would qualify as a Buick.

Engineering has always been my love, but it ended up being my second career...

 

[GregLocock]

"Truth is the OEMs know very little about "feel." "

Yeah, well thanks for that non-insult. Try again.

As to Playstation simulators, that's just industry slang. Any HiL system with a steering wheel gets called that. This is part of the abstract " In this paper, a real time steering simulator will be presented to emulate the behavior of automotive steering systems. The re-configurable steer- by-wire simulator allows for the emulation of steering systems..."






Cheers

Greg Locock

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