Definition of an Engineer 26

[Ashereng]

I recently brought my little ones to my office, to see where I work.

They have only seen me "colour" my drawing, and working on my computer at home, and seem to think that engineering consists of:
1) drinking a lot of coffee (yes, I am cutting back)
2) colouring (I do a lot of back checking and review)
3) surfing the web (I do a lot of design and sizing on my computer)

However, this descripton aside, how would you describe/define engineering to a group of Grade 10s? I don't mean the specific type of engineers, like a piping engineer works on a project to bring oil from Alaska to Texas, but more generic

What does an "engineer" do?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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[GregLocock]

Something along the lines of - until you realise there is something wrong then you are a craftsman, but once you realise the existence of defects then you start to improve the product and engineering starts.

Trouble is, people have been improving the way they do things (lighting fires, killing mammoths, making pots) for just about as long as they have been people.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[SnTMan]

Engineering, due to its predictive nature, should allow one to take on projects that would not be possible thru craft techniques due to the amount of trial and error required.

That said, plenty of trial and error still seems necessary. I guess we just reduce it to the point where we can (hopefully) attract investors.

Mike

 

[moltenmetal]

Then there's the definition we learned in university:

A scientist asks, "How does this work?"

An engineer asks, "Given a basic idea of how this works, how can I use that knowledge to solve these particular problems?"

The arts major asks, "Would you like any fries with that?"

Little did we know that less than 20 years later in Toronto, the engineer would often as not be asking the arts major "Where to, sir?" and the arts major would be asking how much the cab fare would be!

 

[berkshire]

UcfSE (Structural)
I have watched this post to see if anybody corrects you and so far nobody has.
An engineer does not drive a train, he/she runs it.
As a machinist does not drive a lathe, he/she runs it.
B.E.

 

[UcfSE]

berkshire, that is because I didn't need correcting as everyone else understood, especially given the humorous nature of my comment. Perhaps in your careful supervision of this thread you missed my second post on 20 Apr 06. I guess all the smoke from those coal-burning water guzzlers toasted some senses of humor. By the way, no one runs a train, or a lathe for that matter. To run is to "LR" it faster than walking or jogging. I believe the word is operate, and I don't mean what a surgeon does.

 

[berkshire]

UcfSE (Structural)
I stand corrected.
I will now have to post a response to the author of "How to run a lathe" and tell him the word is "Operate"
B.E.

 

[cuky2000]

Engineering – What we Do? The best answer to this question may be What don't we do?

 

[niallmacdubhghaill]

I personally think that there is a tremendous degree of ignorance regarding engineering in the general population. Many people seem to think that "engineers" are greassy fingered mechanics who work on cars/trains. I think what we do would be closer to science from the laymans perspective.

I think

Engineer = inginuity

An engineer should have/has the ability to apply abstract scientific principles to a real world problem to creat a working solution. At least initially, then the design/process is refined/optimised by the engineer finally resulting in the creation of these empirical laws that we all love so much!!

I think engineers (engineering scientists or scientific engineers)have a tremendous amount to offer considering the depth and breadth of our technical education and the global overview of processes our work gives us.

I liked the above post asking what we dont do!!

Cheers

 

[SnTMan]

niallmacdubhghaill, I know that many people, my wife among them, think "engineer = repairman", and are always asking if I can fix this or that broken thing. They also may think any engineer completely understands every technical thing (some do, I'm not one of them).

About applying scientific principles, one of my text books says something like "engineers apply science to solve problems, but when no science exists, the problem must be solved anyway". Very much true.

Mike

 

[TurbulentFluid]

I agree that being an engineer is often misinterpreted. But While agreeing on what you said, I also think that's also due to the amazing expanse of the overly-flattering terminology that's spawning - mainly in the USA, but everyone is picking up the trend. Know what I mean? Some time ago, there were
"mechanical engineers"
"civil engineers"
"electric engineers"
and a few more. Then there were computers and there were "computer engineers", "software engineers" and a few more.

Now however it seems just about everyone doing some kind of half-creative work is something-something engineer. There are now interior design engineers, exterior design engineers, TV installation engineers, all sorts of things pop up on people's business cards... I dunno, just a few years ago they were reffered to as "the interior decorator", "the gardner" and "the cable guy". Or, very often, just by the "kid next door" refference. A half-drunken fella standing in the studio mixing what some pimply teenagers are ranting and trashing guitars is some kind of an engineer. Audio engineer? Acoustic engineer? I heard such references. Then there's human resources engineers, sanitary conditions engineers, and I swear soon the lady taking my 1EUR for use of a public loo will be called a "public conveniences engineer" and will have you subpoenad for reffering to her in any other way.

I think that cartoon about superheros put it right: "In a land where everybody is Super, nobody is". I DO sometimes wonder myself, who IS an engineer, and who isn't, regardless of the title they have...

 

[niallmacdubhghaill]

You know, if someone were to go around calling themselves a doctor or a lawyer, the respective associations would quickly jump on the offending individual. I believe that even though there exists the title "chartered" engineer and "professional" engineer, there is still very little protection of our title. This is what results in this misunderstanding of what consitutes a real engineer. I think that engineers should have an association dedicated to aggressively and publically defending our title. A group like this could also go a long way to eliminating/reducing the scare-mongering and propaganda that goes on by the media/political establishment regarding topics such as energy generation, waste treatment and other controversial topics such as GMOs, stem cell research. In these areas particularly, there is little more dangerous than well intentioned people bad/no information

 

[Ashereng]

The medical and law societies that doctors and lawyers belong to are an advocacy group for the respective professions. They serve the member's interest.

Engineering societies that govern engineering (note the term govern) serve the public interest - not the engineer members.

Engineers need an advocacy group, distinct and separate from the "governing" societies, to serve our interests. Until that happens, we will be second tier citizens.


In the meantime, how do we define what an "engineer" is? Because without it, there will be more "TV Installation Engineers" and such coming soon.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[SnTMan]

Ashereng, the way the doctors and lawyers (and CPA's too)do it is with education and licensing requirements, and while I am not in favor of eveybody having to have a PE to be an engineer (I don't), from the societal (?) standpoint, this is what seems to work. You don't have a license, you don't practice. You might call yourself a doctor, but its illegal. This is not to say that there are not disadvantages to that scheme.

Having said that, I supose its possible that the "TV Installation Eningeers" lobby could get the laws passed such that they would have to be licensed, and therefore would be "real" engineers. No gains made after all.

Around here the real estate industry has somehow gotten it so that any flake who sells real estate (no offense intended) is a Realtor, with a cap R. I don't see that for any other profession.

Life, its a messy business.

Mike

 

[Ashereng]

I think that if we want to be considered in the same breath as doctors and lawyers, then we should be in favor of the legal requirement to have a PE to be an Engineer and to be called an Engineer. (Notice the cap E. Hee Hee)

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[CanuckMiner]

Ashereng,

In Ontario we have

http://www.ospe.on.ca/

as an advocacy group for Engineers. This is separate from our regulation group

http://www.peo.on.ca/

although the former is an "offspring" of the latter.

I do not personally know of too many engineers that are members of the OSPE however, possibly because it is still a fledgling group (only around for less than 5 years I think).

Cheers,
CanuckMiner

 

[Ashereng]

Hmmm.

Are they in favor of the legal requirement to have a PE to be an Engineer and to be called an Engineer?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[keepinitcool]

It is always interesting to see what people think engineers are. However, the most ironic thing is that almost every product and/or service or process that people use everyday has gone through the hands of some engineer.

All the computers, cell phones, cars, planes, etc... that everyone is using exists because of people doing engineering. All the cool high-tech "toys" that people like to buy. The machines that harvest food and mass produce food and other products for us to live are all created by engineering.

I know everyone here knows this, but perhaps tell someone that if everything that had been dealt with by an engineer disappeared, there wouldn't be much left in our modern world. Then you can point out how engineers were involved in these products/processes.

 

[CanuckMiner]

Ashereng,

I am no longer a member of the OSPE so don't know their stance on having professional engineers only as "engineer". However, as an advocacy group charged with the task of promoting the engineering profession, I would think that they would want to (need to?) be "elitist" in their approach. For my own part, the only thing that they promoted during my time with them was the fact that you can get cheaper home & auto insurance if you are a member. I found this to be a rather insulting stance from an organization trying to promote "my profession". I may become a member again in the future if they can get their sh.., er, stuff together.

The PEO on the other hand is very clear that only professional engineers can use the title "engineer" and have it trademarked. There are some limited industrial exemptions. There are documents at the PEO website to that effect, but I cannot directly link you to them as the web address does not change while navigating the site.

Cheers,
CanuckMiner, P.Eng.

 

[nate2003]

This quote may not say exactly what an engineer does, but I like this quote to describe the way engineers can (and should) behave. I first heard this quote years ago when I was in school from a fellow engineering student, and I have it framed on my desk now. It is sort of a goal for myself.

"An engineer? I had grown up among engineers, and I could remember the engineers of the twenties very well indeed: their open, shining intellects, their free and gentle humor, their agility and breadth of thought, the ease with which they shifted from one engineering field to another, and, for that matter, from technology to social concerns and art. Then, too, they personified good manners and delicacy of taste; well-bred speech that flowed evenly and was free of uncultured words; one of them might play a musical instrument, another dabble in painting; and their faces always bore a spiritual imprint. "

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

 

[SnTMan]

Boy, that's a lot to try to live up to. Might be easier to just get a PE.

Mike