Design Rules for Pan Deck? 2

[EngineerofSteel]

I am designing a small winery building. It will be 40x80, with an underground storage area.

My question is: PAN DECK engineering- how does this work?

I have some heavy point loads- moving, loaded, forklift; fermenting vats (near edge of deck) and an estimated 20 tons of grapes each harvest season in September.

1. My first question is: How is pan deck engineered? My understanding is: tables provided by manufacturers. We engineers want to calculate something and to know the safety factor... any help here?

2. Besides the usual loading conditions, what should I consider in sizing W-Beams (I beams) at 12'6" o.c.?

3. How can I reduce the beam deflection on a 40-foot span?

 

[EngineerofSteel]

I found this reference manual, for any future engineer seeking the same information:

http://www.sdi.org/whites/moc2.pdf

Still, input from everyone else is appreciated.

 

[SteelPE]

What's pan deck? Are you talking about form deck?

 

[EngineerofSteel]

Steel PE,

It is called "steel deck" in the SDI manual.

I finished reading the manual. It is primarily a kind of OSHA document in shipping, site handling, and installation. But, all good reading.

Span tables are on sheet 45.

Equations are on Sheet 46.


No real help in selecting a concrete thickness, however.


Ah... just found the engineering design pub by SDI:

http://www.sdi.org/whites/FORM.pdf

 

[BAretired]

1. My first question is: How is pan deck engineered? My understanding is: tables provided by manufacturers. We engineers want to calculate something and to know the safety factor... any help here?

2. Besides the usual loading conditions, what should I consider in sizing W-Beams (I beams) at 12'6" o.c.?

3. How can I reduce the beam deflection on a 40-foot span?

1. Steel deck is engineered using "cold formed steel" principals. In Canada, CSA S-136 would govern. There should be similar codes in other jurisdictions. There are many textbooks available on the subject as well.

2. Why 12'-6" o.c.? Perhaps you can find better economy with closer spacing.

3. Beam deflection may be reduced by using larger beams, continuous beams or composite beams with the latter being the most common.


BA

 

[hokie66]

No offence intended, DairyDesigner, but it sounds like you are out of your depth. If you have never designed a concrete floor, perhaps you need to seek real world assistance. These forums can help with specific issues, but not a lot with basic training.

 

[EngineerofSteel]

Thanks, hokie.

I have no problem designing things I've never designed before. That is really what engineering is all about.

I just wanted to have the formulas, which I located.

I read an article saying that there is no engineering for steel pan deck. It said only tables provided by manufacturers are used.

I think prescriptive design is a cop-out. I like to know the factors and components very well.

I appreciate your boldness to step in, though.

Peace.

 

[EngineerofSteel]

PS- not sure how many concrete and steel buildings I've designed, total. But, it is between 500 and 700, I'll estimate. Australia is the last continent on which I've not designed a building.

 

[wannabeSE]

Dairy Designer,

I am curious what article would state that no engineering is involved. For some background with references, you might read the ICC Acceptance Criteria for Steel Deck Roof and Floor Systems AC43:

http://www.icc-es.org/criteria/pdf_files/ac43.pdf.

Also, Vulcraft and Canam/United Steel Deck have some good information that can be downloaded (you may need to register).

 

[EngineerofSteel]

wannabeSE,

I am reading the Vulcraft site right now! Thanks for the excellent reference.

Here is the Vulcraft Steel Deck material:

http://www.nuconsteel.com/pdf/vulcraft_steel_deck.pdf

 

[hokie66]

DairyDesigner,
OK, back to your original query.

1. Steel form deck is indeed "designed" by reference to the manufacturer's literature. If you want to try to do it yourself using the cold formed structures code, knock yourself out, but be aware that much of it is based on testing, not first principles. Form deck is mostly used in one way slabs, as the depth in the orthogonal direction makes it inefficient for use in two way slabs. The concrete slab thickness selection would be done in the same manner as if conventionally formed. A word of caution about the use of steel deck in a winery: wineries can be quite a corrosive area. By no means would I use the deck compositely, and would be wary of using it as form deck. I have seen it come away in big and small pieces in corrosive areas.

2. All loading conditions, including moving loads, should be included in the analysis.

3. Beam deflections are directly proportional to Moment of Inertia. As BA noted, making the beams continuous and/or composite are other methods where applicable.

 

[PUEngineer]

Question number 3 in the original post and designing 500 to 700 concrete and/or steel buildings don't seem to go together, assuming designing references structurally designing. Just throwing that out there.

 

[EngineerofSteel]

Here is a great thread related to this topic:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=206015

 

[EngineerofSteel]

PU,

I always ask. I would not have thought of using a composite beam, for example.

Truss beams are out because of clearance limitations.