detail for moment end plate connection 4

[wrxsti]

hi engtips community well wishes to all

i have rafter sized with flange plate width and thickness

in keeping with weld 1/16" smaller than plate thickness
the length of weld is barely above that needed for the connection

is anyone familiar with modifications to accomodate stronger weld here
like widening or thickening the flange before the connection?

input is much appreciated

 

[KootK]

Widening or thickening the flange locally sounds expensive. What prevents you from just lengthening the flange plates and the welds?

 

[wrxsti]

sorry i think i may have stated the issue incorrectly

its end plate connection

and the flange width and thickness

no flange plate

weld from flange to end plate is the issue

 

[KootK]

weld from flange to end plate is the issue

Great, I don't believe that the 1/16" business applies to that situation as there's no nearby edge to worry about melting away.

 

[wrxsti]

oh so i can spec larger weld than the flange for this?

 

[KootK]

Yeah, I think so. We've got some pretty excellent steel fabricator members here. If I'm wrong, one of the will tell us so shorty, I guarantee it.

 

[dauwerda]

It's not clear to me if you are describing a tee joint (definitely no issue for weld size) or a lap joint - perhaps a sketch would help.

Either way, the maximum fillet weld size only applies when you are welding along the edge of the material. As can be seen in the image below (from AISC Design Guide 21):

The reason for this can be seen in the middle image, the edge of the plate can be melted away, giving the appearance of a correctly sized weld, however the actual throat is much smaller than it should be.

 

[wrxsti]

yea it would be T thanks for the help guys i was just reading some of the previous posts on this
where you had provided similar insight dauwerda (thread507-471129)

thanks dauwerda and kootk

 

[dauwerda]

Happy to help.

As a side note, I've noticed your username before, I can't help but appreciate it:

This was a hyperblue meet up in the Great Smoky Mountains last year.

 

[dhengr]

Wrxsti:
You don’t bother the give any member sizes, thicknesses or the expected fillet weld size, or welding both outside and inside surfaces of both flanges, etc. So, the exact detail may vary a bit, and welding around the edges of the flanges is pretty difficult to do well, without special attention to the welding details, this leaves stress raisers too. However, large fillet welds become impractical/expensive in terms of consumed weld metal, number of passes and welding time for a given throat. Most welders/fitters will have a grinder or nibbler nearby, and they can grind/nibble a 3/16th or ¼” grove across the outer surface of both flanges (full width), on the end edges in prep. for a partial pen. weld, reinforced with your fillet. They can do this quicker than a second/third pass on the fillet weld, and you can pick up an 1/8th or 3/16th of weld throat which allows for a smaller fillet and saves a lot of weld time and consumables. The large fillet also becomes difficult to terminate near the edges of the flanges in a nice/quality way, right in a region of max. beam and weld stress.

 

[wrxsti]

wow dauwerda thats a really nice pic
are you rocking a raptor eye?

@dhengr
its supposed to be a built up member bf 8" tf .375"
with about 16" of FXX70 it just meets the flange force with .375 weld
i was thinking of stepping it up another 1/16" for added fos

 

[dhengr]

Wrxsti:
Can you actually get 16” of fillet weld on an 8” wide flg? How many weld passes does it take to make a 3/8th or 7/16th inch fillet weld? How do you start and terminate these welds? You don’t pick up a 1/16th inch of throat by adding a 1/16th in fillet weld size. But, you can pick up an 1/8th or 3/16ths of throat with a 3/16th inch bevel on the top of the top flg., or the bot. of the bot. flg. Also, while we generally try to slightly overmatch the weld rod/wire w.r.t. the base metal, the weld pass adjacent to the base metal may not fully come up to the spec. rod value due to mixing of the lower base metal into the weld puddle.

 

[wrxsti]

dhengr thanks for the info yea that should be another 3/16"
how much weld can you get on the 8inch?
are you talking about terminating thesize ofthe weld from the end since the thickness cannot accomodate end returns?
i will consider the bevel