Difficult Client 14

[tctctraining]

I am doing service for a customer on a product that we supply.
The Manager and the electrician at site are very hard to deal with and are playing the blame game.
I just dont want to deal with them ,unfortuantly I am the only one who does this work at our company and no one elese wants to get involved.

I dont know how to tell my manager to get me out of this.

How can I refuse to work for this client?

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

If it's your job ... suck it up and just do it. You have to take the rough with the smooth. Tell the manager and electrician that it's not your design, you just service it. If they have a problem with the unit, they should take it up with your company.

If it's not your job ... look for another.

 

[NomLaser]

Difficult clients will build character and toughen your skin. Best you can do is shrug off their comments if they aren't warranted and inform management of what the customer concerns are. You can try to bring the issue to your boss or ask him to sit in on a conference call or site visit with you if you aren't comfortable dealing with them.

 

[zdas04]

How the heck did you get into a customer support job with such a thin skin? If a client says "your product is such a piece of crap that I can't believe we bought it", don't say "then you must have been an idiot", say "what are the issues you want me to address". If they say "you are too stupid to address a post card", say "what are your specific issues with the product?" And at the end of the day have a beer and forget it. They aren't your spouse, parents, siblings, or children. You don't have to see them outside of the plant. Their "blame game" (what a stupid phrase) ploy is probably just trying to get something for nothing. If it works, good on them. If it doesn't, they're not out anything.

Just gut it up and do your job. If I was your boss and you came to me with the information in your original post I would really question my wisdom in hiring you. It is rare for a company to fire a client, pretty common to fire a non-performing Engineer--who wins if you escalate this? The answer is "no one", now ask who loses?
David

 

[jmw]

Often as not it isn't what clients say but what they mean.
They will says things, stupid things, to get a response but they often can't tell you what the real beef is.

These days, in a responsible company, when you are going to be customer facing they should give you special training. The examples ZDas04 gives are the sort of response your company doesn't want you giving. They want the problem solved and the client to come back for more. They could care less how difficult they are so long as they spend money.

You need customer service training. You'd be surprised how much useful information you can pick up. You think you have it bad? try being a call centre operator for some dad beat company.

So, when they say "your product is rubbish and never worked in the five years we've had it" what they mean is "this is the best product we ever had" and every second it isn't working we are losing a fortune."
Why don't they say that? Because they need it fixed now and if they do say that you will want a job order to visit site and that could take a week or two to get the paperwork through.

I've had these experiences when clients have rung up, blistered me over the phone and demanded a service engineer. The service engineer won't move without an order so in one case I get in my car and drive 120 miles to the clients site and as I get out of the car I can hear a dreadful banging noise from their works.

It turns out this is the pump which has about destroyed itself trying to pump an empty line, and the empty line pumping and pump vibration is upsetting our kit.

They'd had a lightening strike which destroyed some valve control circuits. They'd replaced the control circuits, but never tested the valve and witnessed it operate. In fact, the valve stem was seized. Once they fixed that and the line flooded properly, the pump noise recovered some what and our kit settled down. Of course, fixing the valve meant getting their "Sparks" out of the canteen and he managed to sort circuit the new control card while I watched him. Still, we can all do that. (
In other words, they blamed the one bit of kit they didn't understand (because it never ever went wrong, it just worked) and the problem lay elsewhere.

I tell you, if you can find out what the problem is and fix it, you ought to see a real change in attitude.
Maybe one of these guys put his neck on the block for your kit and it is making him look an idiot.... he naturally blames your company and not himself.
Of course, some people are like this anyway. Too bad.




JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[tctctraining]

Thanks to everybody for their replies. Most replies suggested me to quit the job if I can't handle it or I have thin skin,stupid, unqualified.
I consider all that valuable experinces that some of you guys had in the past and have considered it.

This is what all junior field guys with personality issues try to do, to bring others down and I suggest first you look into your mental health before posting a reply. read the following

If it's not your job ... look for another.
How the heck did you get into a customer support job with such a thin skin?
Their "blame game" (what a stupid phrase)
pretty common to fire a non-performing Engineer.
You need customer service training.

 

[oldfieldguy]

tctc--

You're getting "customer service training". This is the test. You pass or fail.

I spent fifteen years on the line as a field service technician and supervisor. Some of my clients were joy to work with. More than one wasn't.

There were many reasons for the client NOT being happy, form "I wanted your competition in here but I got over-ruled" (our salesman didn't give him a free fishing trip) through "it was one of YOUR technicians who screwed this up" (after installing things exactly per the client-supplied drawing and not testing because the client didn't want to pay for THOSE manhours) to "it's broke AGAIN after you told me you had it fixed" (and I told you I couldn't guarantee it would make the end of the week, much less the two years it's been since I was here last).

I am sure that other folk have their own horror stories.

All you can do is try and salve the anger and hurt feelings in order to get to where you can do your job. If you can fix things, that's great, and I've seen more than one slobbering beast turn mild and friendly when the equipment started making the appropriate money noises. Of such things are relationships built.

Nobody said it was going to be easy, and sometimes it certainly isn't fair, but those are the cards we're dealt.

Good luck. I hope it works out well for you.

old field guy

 

[SNORGY]

If the issue is that the Client is difficult, then the best solution, in my mind, is to take the high road as long as you can stand it; listen to the complaints, don't respond in a defensive way, and when the venting is over, try to solve the problem. Once people realize that the problem is the problem, the problem is not the people or the company or even the product, necessarily, then emotions tend to subside.

If the issue is that you simply seem to have a personality conflict with the Client, I would politely ask your employer to see if an alternate representative can be found. I guess I am spoiled: when I have a problem with one of our Clients and I speak about it honestly with my employer, they do a pretty good job of screening me from the crud so I can get on with fixing the issue.

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[KENAT]

Hmm, let me see.

Given your second post, a few thoughts.

Could you be having communication problems? Not sure if English is your first language but I had difficulty making sense of your second post.

If it is meant to be as whiney and ungrateful as it sounds then look at it this way. To members of this board you are now being a difficult client. Try and see the other point of view, would it make you act differently?

Refusing to do part of your job description can be rather career limiting, I'm not saying their aren’t' exceptions, or perhaps they are so rude etc. that they are exceeding reasonable expectations of your job but still, keep it in mind.

If you want customer service training try working as a checker or sales assistant in a high street store or something. Until you’ve been accused or racism or similar serious offence just for trying to do your job you don’t have much to complain about.

As to mental health, I'm perfectly sane and so am I.


KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[HgTX]

Jeez. People give you reasonable advice and you accuse them of having personality issues and mental health problems? No wonder you can't handle the client--and no wonder the client is complaining.

Look, if "most replies" (as you stated yourself) all gave you similar advice, what is more likely? That everyone here just happens to have not just "personality issues" but the very same form of personality issue, by cosmic coincidence, or that you are the one with the problem?

You should indeed be removed from the situation by your manager, but not because of the client--rather, because you are not equipped to deal with other human beings.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[zdas04]

Since most of your list came from my post, let me try to decipher what you said. First most of the responders (myself included) could only be considered "junior" relative to the Woolly Mammoth--you are getting free advice from people who have spent a lot of time going down the same roads you are starting down, it only gets harder from here.

Whether we have "personality issues" or not is something we'll have to work out with our loved ones and medical practitioners. Most of the posters above are long-standing, active members of eng-tips.com and the only obvious personality issues that I know we all share is our continued willingness to provide free advice to people who have not demonstrated that they can learn from that advice. Without that particular flaw in the characters of so many Engineers, this site would not be the success that it has become.

No one is trying to "bring you down". We don't know you. We are responding to your own words. If the response was not what you were looking for, you might review your choice of words to see what set off the fire storm. In a support role, you have to communicate and from your reaction to our reactions I'd say that you probably didn't communicate your real problem in your original post. I just read it again and I think every response above is spot on.

Are you "thin skinned"? Your second post would indicate that you are.

Is "blame game" a stupid phrase? I believe it is very stupid because it implies that there is a common definition of the term. In fact it is simply a cliche that has no meaning whatsoever.

And "pretty common to fire a non-performing engineer" was not intended as a slam, simply a statement of fact. I have no clue as to your performance level. I know that the guy that whines to his boss that "they were mean to me" tends to be the guy that is rendered redundant in the first set of layoffs. That is life, deal with it.

Is "you need customer service training" a slam? No it was advice from someone who had benefited from similar training.

If you came here looking for shoulders to cry on, you took a wrong turn at

http://www.I-need-a-hug.com

which is located near

http://www.wheres-my-mommy.com.

Engineers tend to try to solve problems. If the solution is to gore your ox, then many of us will still tell you what we think is the truth. Others on eng-tips.com will just not respond to a thread like this. Not many will sympathise with your grade-school problems.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

http://www.muleshoe-eng.com

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

"Life is nature's way of preserving meat" The Master on Dr. Who

 

[drawoh]

tctctraining,

Here is an interesting article by Seth Godin. Godin is a marketing guy, not an engineer, and I do not work (directly) in customer service. Still, it is a worthwhile read.

JHG

 

[jmw]

I'll say it again, "you need customer service training".
I did and I got it.

One of the major areas that gets focused on is "difficult clients". You think you're the first? What's the difference getting your answers from some training company or getting them here?

They give you insightful ways to handle the situation.
Of course, there will be a very few you will find "Impossible" and guess what the advise was; not "the client is always right" or any other trite stuff: if all else fails walk away.
Of course, you may have to take some lumps but only if you do it the wrong way.

You say you want out.
Classic example.
You don't want out.
No you don't, honestly. Think about it.

Ask yourself what you really want.
"What is it you really want?"

Let me help you.
You don't want your boss to think you're a wimp.
He needs to be able to trust you to do your job with minimal supervision.
He doesn't want you not to talk to him or he can't judge how you are doing.
But he doesn't want you dumping your problems and making them his.

So approaching the Boss:
You don't ask your boss to get you out or tell him you aren't going back because you will set up the wrong image of you in his eyes.

What you do is you go and see him and say:
"Boss, I'm having a hell of a time with this client and I need you to tell me how you want it handled."

This wins brownie points. You show willing and you are ready to look for help to do your job.

You don't' give him a new problem, you give him to opportunity to help you with your problem. That always gets you good marks. It also often gets you the result you want.
(it isn't to get off site, trust me.)

You want him to be involved in this problem.
Tell him you want out and his problem then is how to do his job and have this job done.
You ask him how to do it and he will get involved.

He'll ask you to explain.
Do so objectively.
Let him ask questions and you respond.
He will get a better picture and he will be on your side.

I'll guarantee you'll be able to tell it all because he'll want to know - how else can he help you if he doesn't know?

Now, if you want the boss to see for himself, you could ask him if he thinks its a good idea for him to phone the clients and find out what the problem is with you.
He may do that. He might even, because he has to have a better idea (he's showing you how its done), tell you he'll drop in with for for a few minutes as "its time I went to see them about this other thing" and while he's at it, see what the deal is.
(remember to thank him)

See, at no time do you actually tell your boss you can't do the job. Nor do you say you will walk off site leaving your boss with a bigger problem.

Don't ever think that because you speak English and the client speaks English that you can communicate clearly. You can't, you (we all) often need help.
You might think your client doesn't like you personally and you might be offended by that.

But just think, your client was favoured with lots of attention when all anyone wanted was his order and now he has the kit it doesn't work and he wants to see just how important he really is to your company. They want to see your boss but they don't want to have to ask for him. They want to think they are important enough the boss will come see them even if nothing is going wrong.

See? people don't always say what they mean and what they say often requires skilled interpretation. The best thing they think they can do is make your life miserable and then maybe they'll get what they want without having to ask for it.

If you want to learn these things go on a training course and don't get all chuff when some one tells you so.

In the end, if your boss can't find an answer, it will be because it is now his problem and if he can't solve it he wont expect you to and make take you foff the job anyway.
he may take you off the job, but of his own initiative, not because you asked him... a much better solution for you.

This is actually the first lesson of problem solving, always make your problem someone else's.

Second rule: when you have a problem you can do one of two things: make it worse or make it better. You make it better when you make it someone else's problem.

Think about your objectives:

Once you know what your objectives are try and think of good ways to meet them.

You have to ask questions.

You can only solve problems if you understand them.
Don't turn your nose up at customer service training or any other training.
I never do.
If some one wants me to go on a training course, I go.
I have never yet been on one where I didn't learn something new, often something rather basic and obvious.

If you want help, ask but never ever bite the helping hand. You've come to the right place to ask but if the answers you get aren't what you expected, better take a good objective look at what you asked, how you asked and how you handled the replies.

Nobody here is getting paid for to help you and they give good advice where they can.
They will also roast anyone who asks for it.
Trust me on that.

So, your reply post is exactly the wrong way to approach problems.
This is how to make them worse.
Now not only do you have an upset customer, you have some of the most valuable brains on the planet wanting to join them and give you a kicking.
Think about it.
Think again.
And please, think about what you really want and come back and tell us. If you say you really want to not go back to this customer, you haven't thought enough.

PS you only got my answers because I'm in a good mood and just had my coffee.






JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[patprimmer]

You need to ask a quality question if you expect a quality answer. Frankly your question is garbage and unanserable without starting a game of 20 questions.

Several respected members took pot shots at answers to what they guessed might be your question and you criticize them for that. No wonder you have relationship problems.

Clearly state your problem and pull your head in or expect to be deleted.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[tctctraining]

Thanks for your response "jmw". This was the kind of response I was looking for , no Judgment.

 

[apsix]

jmw said "your reply post is exactly the wrong way to approach problems.
This is how to make them worse"

How does that qualify as no Judgement?

Even if you don't appreciate the advice given, we are still hoping that you learn from it.

 

[patprimmer]

apsix

He only read the parts he liked.

EVERYBODY

Please respond without considering enough to make judgements. What a load of ****

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[controlsdude]

have and had difficult customers. I can not say I have had an easy customer. Customers have problems, I as an engineer need to think up and implement a solution. As an engineer keeping calm when others lose it is a must.

When I find a downright rude customers and they are out there, I try to hear them but you as a person has a limit to how much abuse you can take. I think there is a limit and when a customer crosses that line then its either time for your manager to intervene to resolve the conflict or just tell them to come back when they have calmed down to understand the problem. When you start yelling its over and no use to continue talking.

I think it needs to be pointed out everyone has a different limit to the abuse they can take, what the poster is saying is his limit is lower then others. Others that have posted here seem to acknowledge that their limit for abuse has risen to god status or they just tune it out.

Life is too short to be yelled at when the person can just either put in writing or speak calmly what is wrong. As a person I need to hear what they are saying, summon up what was said so they know I heard them, then try to either say I have a solution or will have one soon.

 

[ewh]

... his limit is lower then others

"If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen."

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[TenPenny]

Start the conversation by determining what the customer wants as an end result. Then work backwards to figure out how to get there.

Depending on the customer, you can even say, "What is the end result you want to accomplish, is it to have this system running correctly, or do you just want to yell at me? If all you want to do is yell, makes my job easier, go ahead and start any time...."