Disaster in 1967, how many of us could have warned them? 9

[enginesrus]

An unbelievable engineering failure.

https://astronomy.com/news/2023/01/apollo-1-tragedy-the-fatal-fire-and-its-aftermath

Pure O2 in the command module? All those unknowing, engineers had to do is ask a welder how they felt about that.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

it gets very interesting when you start using whats called nomoxic mixes where the O2pp at sea level is lower than can sustain life.

The most technical dive I did if I had started breathing my bottom mix above 45 meters would have killed me in about 2 mins.

I had 8 15ltr bottles hung off me with decent mixes, bottom mixes, deco mixes and it was an utter joy when i got to the deco bar at 25 meters with a 5 ltr bag of red wine on it.

Only once missed deco and that was due to a killer whale in scapaflow. And the cure was a bottle of dark rum on the dive boat deck consumed while lying on the deck on 100% O2 face mask with my legs in the air.

I didn't get a bend or a hit but I changed my dive planning and risk assessment after that

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

BTW we had one of the safety is everything goddesses got bent going over the rest and be thankful in scotland after a 30 meter 25 min dive and 4 30 mins dives to 10 meters training.

She would never do deco and ran PADI tables.

The rest of us that did the same profiles plus loads more that day were pissed as farts in the back of the minibus.

We just stayed in the pub waiting for the helicopter to take her to Fastlane. The navy diver load master just asked "how much have you lads had to drink?"

About 8 pints since 4 pm I think mate and its now 7..

You will will be grand if you have another couple..... I speak from experience

 

[Lou Scannon]

Curious, what is the chemistry of alcohol helping with well being after a dive? The usual, or something extra?

"Schiefgehen wird, was schiefgehen kann" - das Murphygesetz

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Thins the blood out and opens all the viens up so the bubbles can get to the lungs easier they reckon.

Dehydration has a very adverse effect on off gasing.

Have a look at us navy decompression tables they are scary.

The UK navy tables were taken from Clyde tunnel experience and testing on goats.

These days they run on tissue half life models.

It's not an exact science, I wouldn't do it now what I did age 17-25.

I might add the medics hate the alcohol solution because it messes up the neuro OBS in a chamber and they have to do the full cycle which lasts 18hrs plus. And costs 4 times as much as the simple 6 hour table which most hobby divers need unless they have been doing a week on a dive boat diving multiple dives per day and loaded up the very slow half life tissues.

I did a week doing archeological survey work at 6 meters which was 3 2hour dives a day for 6 days. And contrary to what the amateur tables said my tech diving nitrogen load tracking program said I was still carrying load and shouldn't fly 4 days later.

 

[electricpete]

Upon reading the subject line and op, my first thought was about how the Apollo team had a whole lot of smart and capable folks.

Getting to the moon using less computer power than my phone? Heck, I sometimes can't even get through a strange town using all the computing power in my phone! (ok, I can follow google maps directions, but I'm not the only one that has managed to screw that up once or twice... am I?). The point is, I would never assume they didn't think of something that was obvious to me.

IRStuff's link seems to provide a good explanation.

Sorry for wandering in late. (I know the discussion has moved on, but I'm even less knowledgeable on O2 toxicity than I am on nasa)

 

[IRstuff]

I can follow google maps directions, but I'm not the only one that has managed to screw that up once or twice... am I

There have been instances of people winding up on railroad tracks or in the ocean, supposedly following some sort of navigation app...

This discussion seems to have detoured into diving, which is not the same as space travel.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[Comcokid]

The final Apollo capsules were used for Skylab and then the Apollo–Soyuz mission. An airlock was used for both application to transfer out of the oxygen environment of the Apollo capsule.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

The physiology of diving is core for both aviation and space travel.

Before a space walk the astronauts go on pure O2 for 4-5 hours to stop them getting the bends in the EVA suits.

And they are all trained divers for doing EVA training in the NASA weightless pool.

 

[SwinnyGG]

The arrogance of questioning the work of the engineering team for the Apollo hardware without any research at all supporting an opinion is worthy of a good laugh though.

We are, after all, talking about an engineering effort that ranks among the largest, most thorough, most detailed, highest life safety criticality, and not to mention by nearly any metric most successful, engineering efforts in the history of the human race.

 

[electricpete]

To be sure, the Apollo missions are to this day unparalleled (no humans have set foot on the moon since then). It is all the more remarkable considering the more primitive technologies of that time (compared to today). And I have nothing but respect for their expertise and accomplishments. They had a whole lot of resources, but that in itself doesn't guarantee success.... they also had a management structure that made good decisions in overseeing things (at least for the most part).

As far as I can tell this Apollo 1 failure involved a very carefully calculated and analysed risk. But that does stand in contrast to the Challenger O-Ring failure that Bill mentioned. That was a case of going outside of the engineering basis for the design, and management overruling the engineering objections (from Morton Thiokol) on a short pressure-packed timescale without carefully evaluating or understanding the risks.

So we can blame that one (Challenger) on management rather than engineering. But then... there is also the Hubble mis-calculation on the lenses which was an embarrassing engineering failure. But I tend to think the brilliant solution cancelled that one out (literally and figuratively) ;-)

 

[zeusfaber]

The arrogance of questioning the work of the engineering team ....

I'm going to nit-pick a little bit - though not because we necessarily disagree over what I think you mean.

Criticising the work of an engineering team without any research at all supporting an opinion - yes, that smacks of arrogance.

Dismissing questioning the work of an engineering team as arrogance - that road leads to groupthink, complacency and tragedy.

If you're not on your guard, it's perilously easy to confuse the two.

</rant>

A.

 

[Comcokid]

Let's not forget what 'Launched' the Apollo program. At the time of this speech much of the hardware was in the concept stage.

Kennedy Speech length 2:02

Man Moon Decade

Apollo was a major success.

The moon program was undertaken with the knowledge that there were risks. Apollo 1 (AS-204) was to be the first crewed test launch of the Apollo system into earth orbit. It was not a disaster. It was a rehearsal-test accident in a program known to be pushing the envelope. The halt in the program the months following Apollo 1 allowed for systems to be evaluated and improved and many parts of the program to catch-up.

I had not noticed the second half of that speech before, but it covers Apollo engineering aspects.

 

[enginesrus]

Disdain for logic. And unnecessary personal attack.

Considering the OP's ability to rant on stupidly about topics they seem to know nothing about, any and all detour to other possibly related subjects is fine.