Do the calcs or not 7

[mrMikee]

I am currently working on a project that involves agg bins (elevated bins of sand and gravel,) conveyors, machinery platforms, and a drawing with anticipated foundation loads. This job was underbid and is falling behind schedule. Company management wants me to skip the calculations and just over design everything and get done. Now the customer wants us to design the foundations and the boss wants me to do that too. I have explained that I can't just guess at member sizes, plate thicknesses, bolts, rebars, and so on. I've had this discussion at other companies I worked at but have always been able to communicate to them the need to do the engineering and comply with codes. This time I can't get through and I don't know what else to say. It's a new company with a staff from unrelated businesses and they don't understand the engineering and construction industry.

Has anyone else been in this situation?

Anyone have a suggestion?

Thanks,
-Mike

 

[kenvlach]

Re my comment "give him a day to work (& be handy for questions & FAXes or email)."
-- In my case, it was actually 1 days labor, spread out over a week, plus about 2 hours at each end. This was back a few years, I didn't have a suitable program to do seismic modelling, and I was fortunate to have an experienced structural engineer nearby.
-- He taught me quite a bit, some of which saved money and helped the project go smoothly, both in permitting & in actual construuction.

So, evaluate your resources. You can learn a lot from the experienced guys, especially if you have a good attitude.
Ken

 

[Ron]

mrMikee....your obligation as an engineer is first and formost to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the PUBLIC...not your employer. If your engineering judgment is overruled by a layperson, you further have an obligation in most states to put your objections in writing and in the case of a private citizen/company overruling you, you might even have an obligation to report such to the local building authority. In either case, you must withdraw your professional involvement with the project or face possible action against you from your state board. Remember, for improper acts, a licensed engineer can be held criminally liable for violation of statutory requirements, whereas the layperson can only be held civilly liable. Big difference!

 

[plasgears]

Reminds me of many years ago when I was asked to design a "boiler plate" test article, a plug nozzle jet engine afterburner, and it had a certain elegant appearance, but it was definitely not flight weight. It was featured in marketing ads with a nice blue jet during operation.

The guys who installed the article in the test cell had some complaints because it had a tendency to fall on its ass without due regard for support. So much for boiler plate design. I have come to understand boiler plate or rule of thumb design to be similar in appearance to flight weight but with conservative reinforcements.

 

[EddyC]

mrMikee,

Hows things going? Have you been able to persuade your employer over to your way of seeing things? I sure hope so.

 

[mrMikee]

EddyC,

An update. After 2 1/2 weeks I'm about a week behind but coming to the easiest part of my schedule and hoping not to slide any more. I've done design calcs for about half and used these to estimate (hopefully overdesign) the rest. The bosses don't know about the calcs however they probably just think I'm slow. Did I mention I have to draw these up too?

Concerning further discussions with the bosses not too much has been said. I mentioned that I have a license that I don't want to put at risk and that point did seem to make some progress. In the end though I think the discussion is going to be about the cost of engineering compared to the cost of overdesigned product. Overdesigning after all is easier to do than an efficient and balanced design but still requires some calculations. But I suspect the extra costs in this project will not be well received either. It will probably take time for these issues to all be worked out.

In the near future I plan on reviewing some of the guesswork to make sure nothing unsafe has slipped through for my own peace of mind.

Thanks,
-Mike

 

[EddyC]

I give you a star mrMikee. Thanks for doing your best to protect the safety of those that will be working around the equipment that your employer makes. The workers will never know what you went through to protect them, but we here do.