Do you work overtime? 1

[bradpa77]

So I have heard horror stories about some engineering jobs where you work 60+ hour weeks without overtime pay. I work 40 hours a week. No overtime at all. If I do get overtime it's paid for. If I were asked to do overtime, I would and I have in the past, but typically it isn't required of me .... at all. It's pretty nice. From stories I've heard from other engineers I would think that my situation is pretty rare.

So, basically I was just wondering how many of us engineers do work overtime, how much overtime they work, and if it's paid or unpaid.

If you have a second, everyone please post about your overtime requirements and habits at your job.

Thanks.

 

[ScottyUK]

That's interesting Greg. I'm not aware of anything in UK insurance policies which excludes driving while tired, although there has been research done which shows that sleep deprivation has a similar effect on driving ability as being drunk. Perhaps there is a broad-brush statement about being fit to drive which covers tiredness as well as drink, drugs, medical conditions, etc.

Corus - doesn't the EU legislation only look at average hours over a month? My limited understanding is that it allows a few long shifts provided you get some lieu time to bring the average back down? If you can cite any references for legislation I'd really appreciate it so I can discuss it with our management and HR.

The biggest problem I find is when I'm on call. The all-too-common outcome is I'll have worked a ten hour day, and then be called back to site on a breakdown a couple of hours later and spend all night there too. There should be a legal requirement for a minimum period of rest before being required to go back to work, similar to the regulations which limit the hours a truck driver can work before he is required to have a minimum period of rest.

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I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

 

[mshimko]

In the US, if you're in a "professional position", that is, one requiring a college degree, and also all management positions, you're excempt from the federal labor laws that require time-and-a-half for anything over 40 hours.

This is what the terms "excempt" and "non-excempt" refer to.

Your company can still choose to pay you additional for hours over some limit (say, 40 or 45), at either straight time or something more, but its a company decision, not one mandated by law.

In my case, after retiring from a career in the military over 10 years ago, I was employed by an engineering firm that paid for all hours worked with straight time. This company was acquired by another firm. Our OT policy remained for a year or two, and was then phased out. OT is still possible, but is the exception rather than the rule (putting in more than 40 hours remains common).

 

[ewh]

I don't think a degree has anything to do with it other than enabling you to get an exempt position. I know of degreed engineers who are classified as non-exempt and are threrefore entitled to OT.

It works the other way also; you don't need a degree to have an exempt position.

When you start to refer to a job classification as a "professional position", you open another can of worms. If I have spent 40 years of my life restoring antique automobiles to concourse condition, I would rightly be considered a professional in that field. There are many walks of life which produce "professionals", and a degree has nothing to do with it.

 

[Deutero]

Time in my firm is a roller-coaster.

i.e. We can work eight weeks of 40-45 hr/wk and then when a large projects comes up it can be 50-60 for six weeks, then 60-80 hr/wk for the final two, then back to 40-45 for a short period until the cycle recurs typically triannually.

Outside of the typical office hours, I have the luxury to regulate when I do overtime, either morning, night, weeknight, weekend, in office or at home. All within reason of working as a team with the architects. Bottom line, get the job done professionlly!

Another luxury I have is time & 1/2 over 40.

I am fortunate!

 

[KENAT]

Re exempt,

At least in CA I thought it was pretty much at the employers discretion except that to be exempt you must be getting paid at least twice (I think) minimum wage.

It's probably on the labor board website if anyone cares.

My guess is all the posters here are well within that pay category so it's probably up to your employer.

 

[NormPeterson]

Over the years, I've worked widely varying amounts of OT. Anywhere from months at a time with zero to a month or two of up to 80 hour workweeks (or two or three consecutive 16+ hour days).

The vast majority of it was paid at straight time rates. But there was one stretch following a layoff and near-immediate recall where I was officially classified as non-exempt, meaning that any OT should have been paid at time-and-a-half (but wasn't). The story has a semi-happy ending, but since I'm back working for essentially the same company (contract, with straight time for OT) I should probably leave it at that.

Most of the time, the basic 9 days/80 hour schedule I'm now working still feels like I'm on OT though.


Norm

 

[FrenchCAD]

overtime? what's this? hehe

I work from 3 to 10 hours overtime per week, unpaid. Just because there is heavy work load, not enough people to ensure the work, we're late on the projects or because, like it happened to me yesterday, the company software decided to bug and screwed up my last 3 hours of work that I need to do again now...

Guess professional life goes that way...

Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer Consultant
France

 

[SomptingGuy]

I used to work quite a lot of unpaid overtime. I'd happily stay late and not book the hours. Now that I'm officially not allowed to book the hours, I'm far less inclined to do them.

 

[epoisses]

4-5 hours per week unpaid, because
- the late hours are nice and quiet so my efficiency is much higher;
- it allows me, or at least makes it easier, to leave early/come in late whenever I need to (dentist, garage, stuff like that).
Never during the weekend though.

 

[FrenchCAD]

for sure, no work during weekend. I spend enough time for it during week.

Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer Consultant
France

 

[lostsailor]

I work on billable hours. If I'm not getting paid, I don't work. Being salaried or "professional" is no justification for a work schedule approaching indentured servitude. Your education/skills are your product, they should be valued, priced, and respected accordingly. The only times that I vary from this are for personal reasons (some clients I like more than others), strategic career reasons, or some other quid pro quo.
Regards,
RLS

 

[Senselessticker]

If I were working hours for which I was not getting paid...I would be looking hard for a new job (and would keep looking until I found one). I generally work my forty and not a minute more. Occasionally, I put in a weekend or some long (12 hour) type days, but usually make up for it by taking a day off the following week. I've never understood why people choose to work 50 or 60 or 70 hour weeks (and sometimes gloat over it). Paid or unpaid...most of the people I know who work lots of overtime are generally in bad health (both mentally/physically), have disfunctional family life, and generally unpleasant to be around either at work or outside of work. I always want to say: "Get a life!" to all the work-a-holics. I will always encourage those who work under me to maintane a healthy balance of work/play/family, and would never work for someone who did not encourage a balanced lifestyle.

 

[Comcokid]

CBS "60-Minutes" program this Sunday 7/23 had a segment on overtime in the US. I though it was interesting that although salary workers in the US are working more than any other country, that US productivity is lower than most other developed countries.

I know I spend a lot of time on meetings, procedures, and reporting unrelated to engineering functions. So, are Americans working so much to make up for the inefficient work environment companies create?

 

[SomptingGuy]

I think the company I work for is probably quite typical.

We used to employ people with admin roles (publications, post, secretarial, drivers, etc). Over the years these people have been elimated to save money. What actually happens is their work now gets done by the engineers, who then have to find extra time to be as productive as they were before.

I keep suggesting to my manager that he set up job numbers so we can find out exactly how much money has been saved by having engineers do admin work.

 

[NormPeterson]

How about the unofficial "training cost" involved when one has to learn on the spur of the moment how to un-jam the printer/copier so that the "real work" can proceed? Or having to chase down the solutions to one's own HR-related issues when there is no HR representative on site? Or pulling one's weight with respect to cleaning up the coffee machine/microwave/refrigerator cubie?

As an addendum to my previous post, I don't mind spending the occasional unbilled few minutes to bring some task to a more convenient stopping point rather than lose the train of thought.


Norm

 

[KENAT]

Good luck SomptingGuy,

My last place did have a couple of 'slush funds', If I recall one was Admin and one was IT issues or something like that.

Trouble is at various times they actually told us not to book too much to those numbers!

Kind of defeats the object of the exercise no?

 

[dvd]

In addition to the professionalism of working unpaid overtime, let's not forget to be even more professional and not have pensions. We can show those dirty tradesmen that we are above all of those nasty benefits.

The benefits to the community of engineers working long hours are numerous: divorce lawyers prosper; volunteer positions are filled by others (unemployed/underemployed peers); children learn to occupy themselves; boats stay moored, leaving the waterways safer....

 

[AggieYank]

I've been working two years for a structural engineering firm. I've been paid OT for a one month period of the two years. The boss decided to give us straight time, probably realized how expensive it was, and promptly cut the OT off.

I work 40 hours a week when it's slow, and 50-60 hours a week when it's busy. Right now is a little slow, but in general I'd say it's busy more than it's slow.

 

[Quantum50]

You're absolutely right, KENAT! It makes me shake my head when I see a metric created to gather data and it evolves into something to be avoided.

I just LOVE working for the government! :-(

 

[HgTX]

Hour-for-hour comp time here. And all of the engineers are FLSA exempt. There was a bit of debate about the EITs but I think they finally decided they were exempt too. The inspectors are non-exempt.

Hg

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