Does a confined space entry course give you continuing ed credits towards your PE? 1

[beej67]

I understand it might vary by state, but what's the general answer?

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[appot]

Continuing education must consist of learning experiences which enhance and expand the skills, knowledge, and abilities of practicing professionals to remain current and render competent professional services to the public. Practitioners may pursue technical, nontechnical, regulatory, ethical, and business practice needs for a well-rounded education provided the education directly benefits the health, safety, or welfare of the public.

I am not a lawyer, but for the above quoted state could you prove that it directly benefits the health, safety, or welfare of the public?

 

[dik]

By having the training, you are less likely to put emergency personnel in harms way, so you have benefitted the public.

My $.02...

Dik

 

[SlideRuleEra]

For the following 26 states, yes. For other states, maybe. Taken from this listing.

Alabama
Arkansas
Georgia
Illinois
Iowa
Kansas
Maine
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Mexico
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oregon
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
West Virginia
Wyoming

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

http://www.VacuumTubeEra.net

 

[JedClampett]

I track PDH's for about 8 different states. Everybody (the states I'm registered in), except Florida, uses an honor system. You can report anything you want. Enforcement is basically done by using random audits.
So my advice is for close calls, use them. If you're audited, you have a pretty good chance they'll let you skate. IMHO, the auditors are looking for blatant liars, who are claiming riding the bus or going to the toilet as earning PDH's. Confined space training has potential. I've never used it, but I've been tempted. I have no problem using Brown Bags put on by equipment suppliers.

 

[MotorCity]

I say no. The confined space training I have had simply deals with the requirements to perform such an entry. Now, if it had something to do with the design of confined spaces (such as how to minimize or eliminate them) then I would say yes. The subject matter is non technical, non engineering related. Apparently there are 26 states that disagree with my logic, but my state failed to make the list.

 

[darthsoilsguy2]

Yes*
*You should know the rules of each state you have a license. In every state i have a license in, there is a FAQ on the website discussing this in detail. i keep an adobe print of the pages just in case the rules change. For example this is the link to North Carolina

http://www.ncbels.org/cpcfaq.html

In NC, as long as the engineer determines they have learned something.... it counts. Understanding Confined Space Entry is absolutely applicable not just to your entry but to understand the means/methods constraints of contractors. Constructability is no less important than load calculations, material science, etc....

 

[darthsoilsguy2]

I'm adding Vermont to SlideRuleEra's list. VT doesn't have PDH requirements for license renewal. So feel free to triple the amount of credits you get and take it as many times as you want. fyi, i'm claiming a pdh for having this talk.

 

[rconner]

<<<I am not a lawyer, but for the above quoted state could you prove that it directly benefits the health, safety, or welfare of the public?>>>
IMO (for whatever that is worth) a whole lot of folks and perhaps even the "public" can benefit from confined space training, and various sorts of Engineering "guards" e.g. in engineering designs helpful in protecting everyone around what is going on are also a rapidly developing field.
Of course, IMO as well Engineers and their bosses/firms who employ them are part of the "public", and they also can "benefit" personally and as a business from good knowledge of the subject (lack of good knowledge can be deadly, even for Engineers e.g. see

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/engineer-taking-photo-may-have-sparked-explosion-4206357).

Yes!

 

[MotorCity]

I agree that confined space training can be valuable to engineers and non-engineers alike. I just think its not technical enough to count as pdh's. In fact, many states limit the number of non-technical pdh's that can be counted toward the requirement (for example topics in ethics, business practices, report writing, etc.) Should we allow first aid training, or earning your crane or forktruck operator license to count toward pdh's? Earning those credentials are no less construction related than confined space training.

 

[cvg]

many of the states not listed above do not require CE PDH's

for instance, in one state where I am registered, this is the reasoning. I have to agree that if we all are making up classes for vendor brown bags and reporting on the honor system, than I really see no point in the regulation.

"The Board does not require continuing education or professional development hours for license renewal because, after consulting with stakeholders, it determined that CE did not increase professional competency and only increased bureaucratic requirements for license renewal."

 

[rconner]

<<<not technical enough to count as pdh's>>>???
Many states are not only approving e.g. ethics training for pdh's, but even requiring same specifically/regularly. Is this wrong because same deals more with right and wrong than "technical"??
Aspects of confined space training are technical, and I guess one could just as easily argue more technical than ethics, and engineers have lost their lives in confined space incidents. We or boards should encourage the opposite of that, as it is taught in Engineering ethics that safety is paramount (and that implies to me pretty high importance!!)

 

[thaidavid40]

Why are we discussing trying to count a course such as this towards CEU credits? Why not take a course that unambiguously counts towards enhancing one's professional credentials? Those types of courses would leave no doubt as to their validity. Is there a compelling reason to try and count a course such as this?

Thaidavid

 

[darthsoilsguy2]

thaidavid, i think we're talking about counting the courses that are needed to be taken anyway for work. i bet there are very few people who take CSE for academic purposes and never use the training.

 

[thaidavid40]

@darthsoilguy2 -
Thanks for the clarification. However, I was already understanding that this could be a possible reason for the OP's question. Even so, I still ask my same question. I also have to take such training courses in my line of work (industrial structural/civil consulting engineering). I have never tried to get double-credit for these types of courses because I usually have enough CEU credits for applicable professionally-related subjects to carry over credits year after year. I still think that these types of courses are not what most state legislatures really intended when they set up CEU statutes state by state. Regardless, I don't think it appropriate to do so. Just my personal opinion as to their professional utility. Maybe we just don't see this from the same standpoint, but thanks again,
Dave

Thaidavid